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Started By
Message
re: Satanists seek spot next to Ten Commandments monument on steps of OK's Statehous
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:01 pm to DCRebel
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:01 pm to DCRebel
quote:
Legal heritage? Lol.
First, how many of the ten commandments are actually laws? Theft? Murder? Perjury? I think that's it. It's not illegal to dishonor your father, nor is it illegal to be covetous, nor is it illegal to be an idolator, etc.
And, second, the idea that modern laws are "inspired" or "derived" from the ten commandments is weak and condescending. As if we couldn't figure out "hey let's not kill each other and take each other's shite" without a god telling us not to. Plenty of ancient societies wholly separate from Judaism were able to independently develop a rule of law, so that idea of "legal heritage" is pure bullshite.
Now, as someone pointed out earlier, if you wanted to display it next to Hammurabi's Code, the Magna Carta, etc., as more of a historical or anthropological piece, then that's fine I guess. I suppose I really don't care what you do with the ten commandments; I just think the idea that our laws derive from them is false.
this is the best post in this thread so far.
1
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:12 pm to sabes que
quote:
sabes que
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:14 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:15 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
In God We Trust, brother. We're one nation under God. What's the religion?
Yes, we've just celebrated our 57th year of being one nation under God. Don't know how we were able to carry on for the first 180 years.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:18 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
In fact, they enjoy the same historic basis of law, much of which is interwoven in various faiths. You should travel there at some point. Beautiful country. Lots of churches.
Yes, and I am sure that their belief in gender equality has its roots in the Bible as well, correct? Or did that part of morality develop separately?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:20 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
In God We Trust, brother. We're one nation under God. What's the religion?
And which God would that be, brother? As you may know, there are actually quite a few of them.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:21 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
So Lycurgus and Confucius used religion?
Lycurgus has to visit the Oracle, at least narratively. why?
Confucius mandated keeping the folk religions FOR society
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
So do you believe that our morality derives from religion? If so, I would like to know which religion specifically. Because they all seem pretty damn immoral when analyzed. I just would like to know which particular one you think we derive our morality from?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:34 pm to sabes que
quote:
So do you believe that our morality derives from religion?
no
morality is formed from societal trial and error
religion creates the vessel/canon to force the results of this trial and error upon society
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
religion creates the vessel/canon to force the results of this trial and error upon society
Which religions leave room for trial and error? Most of the religious people I talk with, seem to believe in an unchanging, everlasting morality derived from God. Where is the room for trial and error?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:44 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well...that's what it took
Is it?
So you believe the Jews wandered the desert for 40 years just killing and stealing, thinking it was totally okay to do so, until Jehovah had to tell them not to? You really think that human beings are so stupid and incapable of figuring this out on our own?
quote:
and this is coming from a non-believer.
Well then you know it's not "what it took," because "sin" or whatever you want to call it happened before and after Moses supposedly delivered the ten commandments.
quote:
.we DO need something telling us not to do certain behaviors that disrupt society
I think that's debatable. It's not like it's something that can be empirically proven. You're dipping more into philosophy with that statement.
I think a lot of human morality derives from human reason and intellect. I'm Kantian, I guess.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:44 pm to sabes que
quote:
Which religions leave room for trial and error? Most of the religious people I talk with, seem to believe in an unchanging, everlasting morality derived from God. Where is the room for trial and error?
i mean you're somewhat missing the point, but i can still answer in a way i think you'll understand
as society/man progressed, religions shifted amongst later versions of themselves. judaism to christianity is this
judaism, in large part, is literally a survival guide for the Jews. a lot of the "crazy shite" you find in the OT is important lessons for a group of people without much genetic difference living in a desert. that's one half of the covenant (believe in God, and God will tell you how to survive). and of course some of it was wrong...we learned more later on
christianity came about at a different point in the lives of this group, so the religion shifted for the new groups
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:47 pm to DCRebel
quote:
You really think that human beings are so stupid and incapable of figuring this out on our own?
humans hadn't been living in groups, especially outside of a sovereign, for that long. so yes
quote:
I think that's debatable. It's not like it's something that can be empirically proven.
i'd imagine the vast overlap in morality amongst cultures that never interacted is pretty solid empirical evidence
i mean hell the societal trial and error is empiricism
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
Ahh, so when is Christianity going to leave some of its "crazy shite" and move into a different religion?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So without belief in a intervening deity you think people would just descend into total chaos and lose all morality?
quote:
many people would, yes
But not you, correct? Wow, the condescending and egotistical meter is going off of the charts here.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:51 pm to sabes que
quote:
so when is Christianity going to leave some of its "crazy shite" and move into a different religion?
you don't think the different styles of Christianity that we see created/evolving are just this?
70 years ago it was a big deal for Catholics to get married again after divorce (or hell, to get divorced)
some Christian churches are marrying gay people now!
you don't see certain factions/churches changing?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'd imagine the vast overlap in morality amongst cultures that never interacted is pretty solid empirical evidence
i mean hell the societal trial and error is empiricism
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:53 pm to sabes que
quote:
But not you, correct?
well not only am i a near genius, i've been socialized within this system AND educated on the past
quote:
Wow, the condescending and egotistical meter is going off of the charts here.
i have been blessed, both genetically/biologically and by chance being born to a college-educated mother...where she could afford a small house due to it being a poor state....in a random area with good public schooling...in America. i mean frick had i had the misfortune to be born in Africa? shite
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well not only am i a near genius
Ahh, and humble as well.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
Yeah and you're in shape!!!!
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