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re: Russia and NATO
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:53 pm to RonLaFlamme
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:53 pm to RonLaFlamme
quote:
Why’d you draw the line @ 2004? Is it because you’d have to include Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland? All added in 1999. Or did you not want to include Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia which were all added in 2004?
Well, in the context of NATO “creeping” toward Russia, there was no reason to mention expansions prior to 2004.
If you’d rather says NATO hasn’t crept closer to Russia since 1999 then that only strengthens the point I wAs making.
1
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:53 pm to sta4ever
quote:
What I said sure does equate to wanting to send American soldiers over there
You sure don’t mind sending our money over there to that con artist Zelensky and his corrupt government, money that would be better spent here on Americans.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:55 pm to jonnyanony
That was in a subsequent post to the one I was replying to
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:57 pm to RonLaFlamme
But doesn't "since 2004" cover everything you're talking about?
I think the point is that is all 18+ years in the past.
I think the point is that is all 18+ years in the past.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:58 pm to Indefatigable
But they have continued to encircle and deepen the territory around Russia since then.
It gives a little more context to Russias response in Georgia (~07/08) after the major NATO expansion in 04.
It gives a little more context to Russias response in Georgia (~07/08) after the major NATO expansion in 04.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:58 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Gawd dayum. Didn't know that
That was my primary point earlier in this thread, and part of what makes the “Russia fears NATO on its borders” justification so weak.
NATO added practically the entire Warsaw Pact in two big swallows in the late 90’s-early 00’s. Right in the heels of German reunification and NATO’s bombing in Serbia, and right in the midst of the Russia’s problems in The Caucusus. If there was a time for Moscow to throw a tantrum about purely NATO encroachment, that was it.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 6:59 pm to RonLaFlamme
They have?
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:00 pm to thebigmuffaletta
Tell me you don’t know how money, taxes, and the economy works, without telling me
Ok thanks.
quote:
You sure don’t mind sending our money over there to that con artist Zelensky and his corrupt government, money that would be better spent here on Americans.
Ok thanks.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:02 pm to sta4ever
You support pissing away US taxpayer dollars on a corrupt foreign government. That’s all one needs to know.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:02 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Russia fears NATO on its borders”
This is a shorthand and incomplete explanation that you are exploiting.
I’d phrase it as the encircling of Russia is what they fear. Ukraine closes one of the few geographical gaps in NATO territory from the NW of Russia to the SW of Russia.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:02 pm to RonLaFlamme
quote:
But they have continued to encircle and deepen the territory around Russia since then.
By doing what?
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:02 pm to Indefatigable
It seems to me that if invading countries and annexing their land led to further interest in countries pursuing NATO membership the solution might not be be invading more countries and annexing more territory.
This post was edited on 10/3/22 at 7:03 pm
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:03 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
You support pissing away US taxpayer dollars on a corrupt foreign government. That’s all one needs to know.
And you support a tyrannical loon and think their actions should be ignored, and we should appease to them.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:05 pm to jonnyanony
quote:
They have?
Yes they have. Not as drastically as before 2004 but Albania, Croatia, Montenegro, and North Macedonia have been added. Former spheres of influence of the USSR.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:06 pm to jonnyanony
quote:
It seems to me that if invading countries and annexing their land led to further interest in countries pursuing NATO membership the solution might not be be invading more countries and annexing more territory.
At the very least it backfired on Moscow vis-a-vis Finland and Sweden. I do not think they expected those nations, particularly the Finns, to abandon neutrality so quickly. In a strategic sense it was a major blunder.
This post was edited on 10/3/22 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:07 pm to TigerAttorney
He’s not playing their globalist left wing bullshite and that’s why they are after him. They are going to start a world war.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:07 pm to Indefatigable
I agree with this
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:08 pm to RonLaFlamme
quote:
Yes they have. Not as drastically as before 2004 but Albania, Croatia, Montenegro, and North Macedonia have been added. Former spheres of influence of the USSR.
Baw. When I incorporated the 04 expansion previously, I intended it to mean that NATO’s expansion had extended to the Russian border to the highest point that NATO’s borders would do so (until 2022). The subsequent additions of SW Balkan ethno-states between 04 and 2018ish is not why Russia is invading Ukraine.
This post was edited on 10/3/22 at 7:10 pm
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:10 pm to sta4ever
quote:
And you support a tyrannical loon
How many times are you gonna peddle this tired and worn out accusation? Because someone doesn’t support one corrupt country that doesn’t make them a supporter or another corrupt country.
By contrast, you’ve chosen a side between Europe’s two most corrupt countries.
Posted on 10/3/22 at 7:10 pm to Indefatigable
I didn’t claim that.
I’d say that his pushback to the 04 expansion started in 07/08 w/Georgia. Expanded to Ukraine in 2014 and has continued since.
Edited to include:
Just because there’s not a press conference or immediate response doesn’t mean one doesn’t lead to the other.
I’d say that his pushback to the 04 expansion started in 07/08 w/Georgia. Expanded to Ukraine in 2014 and has continued since.
Edited to include:
Just because there’s not a press conference or immediate response doesn’t mean one doesn’t lead to the other.
This post was edited on 10/3/22 at 7:21 pm
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