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Started By
Message
re: Ranked Choice voting...
Posted on 12/14/22 at 8:17 am to Indefatigable
Posted on 12/14/22 at 8:17 am to Indefatigable
quote:
That is not the case with state subdivisions. Counties are just administrative lines drawn on a map.
Case in point. In Georgia is exacerbated because about 120 of our counties are have very low populations/not in MPO areas.
0
Posted on 12/14/22 at 9:40 am to Snipe
Cities, acres, counties and farms don't decide elections. Voters do. But you already know that. It's straight out of ninth grade civics class.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 9:42 am to TGFN57
quote:
Cities, acres, counties and farms don't decide elections. Ballots do.
FIFY
Posted on 12/14/22 at 12:57 pm to TGFN57
quote:
It's straight out of ninth grade civics class.
I think a lot of people here slept through that lesson.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:04 pm to Wally Sparks
quote:
I think a lot of people here slept through that lesson.
No.
People on here want the change for partisan purposes. Nothing more.
They will promote whatever system they believe (or are told) will decrease Democrat populations in elections.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:09 pm to efrad
quote:
In all of these threads, nobody on this board seems to be able to articulate what's wrong with Ranked Choice Voting other than their preferred candidates have lost in some Ranked Choice Voting election.
Only remotely reasonable argument I've heard is that if someone cheats the election, it's more data and a more complicated process, so it could be easier to obfuscate the cheating.
IMO it would create a situation much more representative to the will of the people. First Past the Post elections aren't. Obviously, this depends on the election being legitimately run.
Agreed. I suspect there is a number of ppl against it that don't really know much about it.
The drawbacks that I am aware of are more along the lines of implementation. Complication and obfuscation sure, it also brings in fractional votes if that is how it was implemented in the software.
I am not on board with the argument that ppl not filling in choices beyond their first choice as being a flaw of the system. That's just plain sad on the voters.
This post was edited on 12/14/22 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:13 pm to DerkaDerka
There's nothing wrong with the system itself of Ranked Choice Voting. People just don't like the expected outcomes.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:18 pm to DerkaDerka
quote:
The drawbacks that I am aware of are more along the lines of implementation. Complication and obfuscation sure,
It pretty much has to be done by computers and algorithms on the scaled needed.
I want human systems with paper ballots like France and Israel.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:31 pm to efrad
quote:
In all of these threads, nobody on this board seems to be able to articulate what's wrong with Ranked Choice Voting
Fractional voting?
Dominion?
If those are involved in the process, then for me it is a hard pass.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:31 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
expected outcomes.
Freudian slip?
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:35 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
Freudian slip?
No, I'm talking about the expected outcomes of prior elections in a hypothetical had they used ranked choice voting.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 3:47 pm to armsdealer
quote:Like it did in Alaska’s Senate race?
It really is the only way to break the uniparty
Posted on 12/14/22 at 3:50 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:It certainly gives the illusion of a chance. But in reality it comes down to who gets the most second choices. No different than a runoff.
I disagree. It gives a legitimate third party candidate a chance.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 3:54 pm to Jax-Tiger
If states allocated their electoral votes based on Congressional districts (as opposed to winner-take-all for 48/50 states) we could never have another Democrat president.
Posted on 12/15/22 at 8:33 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
If states allocated their electoral votes based on Congressional districts (as opposed to winner-take-all for 48/50 states) we could never have another Democrat president.
I wouldn't go that far, but it would break the CA/NY/IL blue wall.
Had the Maine/Nebraska methods been implemented in all states, Romney would've won in 2012 (274-264), and Trump would've still won in 2016 but only receive 290 EVs as opposed to 306.
270toWin has a great chart with each scenario:
quote:
Methodologies
Winner Take All (WTA) awards all electoral votes to the popular vote winner of the state. This is the current methodology in all but Maine and Nebraska.
Congressional District - Popular (CDP) awards two electoral votes to the popular vote winner of the state, with one each allocated to the popular vote winner in each individual Congressional District (CD). This approach is used by Maine and Nebraska.
Congressional District - Majority (CDM) awards two electoral votes to the party winning the popular vote in a majority of the CD, with one each allocated to the popular vote winner in each individual CD.
Proportional Popular - Popular (PPV) awards two electoral votes to the popular vote winner, with the remainder allocated based on the percentage of popular vote earned.
Popular Vote by State (PVS) is the same as PPV, except all a state’s electoral votes are allocated by popular vote.
Posted on 12/15/22 at 12:46 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
It pretty much has to be done by computers and algorithms on the scaled needed.
I want human systems with paper ballots like France and Israel.
I can entertain that concern, the scale of the process requiring computers for RCV. I will say that in my experiences many ppl calling for paper ballots (not digging at you specifically) haven't really considered all of the conditions that need to be addressed. Louisiana has signed summaries at the precinct level that are available to anyone from their local Clerk of Court. With those, you can reconcile the results on sos.la.gov and ignore everything in the middle as irrelevant. There are other potential exploits, but this does eliminate a lot. The thing I really like about these reports is that as a common person, you can actually digest this info. If we have ballots without concrete-ish reports though... I will never see the ballots and could never process them in any reasonable manner even if I did.
Paper ballots are good, but there are more things to iron out. If we say paper ballots and don't press more specifically then you end up where we could very well be going very soon in Louisiana. That is with Ballot Marking Devices that nominally have paper ballots but don't really if someone decides the digital copy is good enough. Misdirection and plausible deniability could put us in a worse position.
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