re: PT California Wildfire Thread

Got POPPED

Reservoir empty for 11-months.

Got hoisted by they own petard.

Pray for Heidi & Spencer

Why is there only one super scooper flying?

Seems like we could have a fleet scooping water off the ocean and kill this thing.

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Why is there only one super scooper flying?

Seems like we could have a fleet scooping water off the ocean and kill this thing.

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Not sure but 2 MAFF C 130s just joined in dropping retardant along with the other big planes


Helos are still dropping water

Tough scene..

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@GavinNewsom is calling for an investigation into @LADWP after there wasn't enough water to fight the Palisades Fire early on.

"I want to know what the hell happened?"

"These systems obviously were not designed for a catastrophic event of this size...they need to be designed in this new world reality."

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Here is some info from a Pasadena resident who grew up in the area - his parents are still in the same area.

1.) these wind storms were unprecedented - more like a 1,000 year flood.

2.) forest management wasn't relevant here since the fire started in developed areas.

3.) the 17 million reduction in budget hasn't gone into effect yet.

4.) PP didn't have the necessary water reservoir filled because they never needed one - see 1,000 year event.

Other stuff - just re-posting this alternative point of view so fire away.

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1. This was an unprecedented wind event. Every year we get warnings
about the Santa Ana winds and high fire danger. Most often, the winds
come, they are powerful and not much happens. Basic precautions, like
defensible space around homes, planing appropriate vegetation,
switching to non-flammable roofs...these work in normal wind/red flag
events.

This was NOT a normal Santa Ana wind event. This shite was crazy.
I've lived in SoCal for almost 50 years. The only other comparable
wind event was in 2011. Power was out for days, trees downed
everywhere. But it was just after it rained, so no fires.

Never seen anything like the dry environment with this kind of wind.


2. This is not a forest fire where "forest management" would have done
shite. These fires started as brush fires in dry grassland on the
fringe of open space near homes. These are not big pine trees burning
uncontrollably (think Paradise fire a few years back). The damage
here is that these were "development fires."

The Eaton Fire started in a regional park near a major road and near
big developed shopping centers, subdivisions, etc. Same with
Palisades - it was behind a big housing development.

In forest fires, the fire comes from the forest into the
neighborhoods. That's not what happened here. The fires started near
the homes and the fricking blowtorch winds coming NE to SW pushed the
flames and embers into suburbia. Later the adjacent open spaces
(still not "forests" more coastal sage scrub lands) became engulfed,
but the neighborhoods were affected from the get go.

Typically wildfires would burn a few homes/neighborhoods on the
outskirts of the development footprint. This one got into the heart
of the neighborhoods.

3. The water situation is unfortunate. Hindsight is 20/20, but in
the Palisades, which has been developed for many decades, there has
never been a fire of this magnitude. Could a water system have been
developed to try to mitigate a fire like this? Possibly, but it would
be like planning for a 1000 year storm. And even if they did have
100million gallons to fight the fires, logistically you can only
deploy so many people, units, and water at a time. Plus, the winds
prevented an human from effectively doing much on Tuesday night/Wed
morning. Even if resources were able to be deployed and water was available, the winds would have just blown the water away, whether from air drops or fire hoses.

Fewer water issues in Eaton, but they still had some. The fire
destroyed infrastructure required to get/pump water uphill to the
affected homes. Again, hindsight is 20/20, but it would have been
really difficult to envision and plan for this type of event.

There were water issues, but it's not clear the extent. I have read that the water supply tanks in the Palisades were tapped out. It's a HUGE amount of water, they were not getting chintzy with water with the people out there (read: rich, loud, and willing to pay).

In Altadena, my buddy went up to his house yesterday and confirmed the water was not on.

4. This issue of cuts to the fire department, etc. is a red herring.

Yes, the City of LA reduced their fire budget last year. Yes, the Chief said it would hurt their efforts (of course she's going to say that...it's HER budget).

First, and most importantly, the City fire budget is only a tiny portion of any wildfire effort. The County of LA has a much MUCH bigger fire department and services all the surrounding areas and smaller cities.

Eaton Fire is in the County area. As soon as Palisades crossed out of Palisades into Malibu, that's county area. The CITY fire budget has zero impact on the County fire response. The County budget dwarfs the city budget. Probably 2 or 3x bigger.

Additionally, when big events happen, resources are called in from all over the area and the state. If you watch closely, there were Redondo Beach city fire vehicles helping with the Palisades fire. There were state fire resources deployed. Alhambra fire (and police) were up in Altadena helping with the eaton fire. There were Kern County fire fighters down to give LA County FF a break. Etc. etc.

This is how it works with fire response - mutual aid throughout the region and the state. It generall works quite well...but this was UNPRECEDENTED.

The idea that a $17m cut (which has not even taken effect yet!) led to this disaster or even made it more difficult is a fricking joke. Anyone who says that is lying or has no idea how this stuff works. I do.

Notes skint her up

So according to your line of thinking, it’s a logical and reasonable question to ask: do you suggest they simply cease all current efforts because it’s useless anyway, and a waste of resources and manpower?