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Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:16 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Price gouging encourages people to get more supply to the areas of need. It should be legal
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:18 am to weagle99
quote:
Mainly because people don’t understand how our system is supposed to work and are too emotional to acknowledge the effectiveness of the market even when the evidence is right in front of them.
But I agree with you, I think we are too far gone.
I think you're failing to recognize the cultural and moral underpinnings. People have an innate sense of fairness and gouging just triggers a negative response. I think it harkens back to our tribal beginnings. You wouldn't do that to your own people and if you did they'd probably kill you.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:18 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
Foolish logic.
I would much rather have a $15 bottle of water available to me than no water.
After Katrina I would have loved to have been able to pay $10 a gallon for gas for my generator and not have to stand in line if you need a real life example. Those 3 and 4 hours line for $2.50 gas were horrible. You never knew if the station was going to run out before you got to the pump either.
I would much rather have a $15 bottle of water available to me than no water.
After Katrina I would have loved to have been able to pay $10 a gallon for gas for my generator and not have to stand in line if you need a real life example. Those 3 and 4 hours line for $2.50 gas were horrible. You never knew if the station was going to run out before you got to the pump either.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:19 am to VOR
quote:
In most circumstances the true “market “ has been upended.
Great analysis. Bookmarked. Thanks.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:19 am to VOR
quote:
I’m not surprised at that opinion, because for many of you, anything goes.However, to dress up price gouging as simple free market capitalism is disingenuous. In most circumstances the true “market “ has been upended.
No, the "former" market has been upended. You just think government should react by intervening in the new market. That leads to shortages.
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 11:25 am
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:21 am to VOR
wrong.
Price gouging can never last long after a storm. If the prices are high the commodities flood into the area.
Gouging isn't a forced action.
There are a lot of cost in operating a business after a storm and I see NOTHING wrong at all with business that are open raising prices. It is foolish not to give businesses incentive to get back open. Higher prices do that.
Price gouging can never last long after a storm. If the prices are high the commodities flood into the area.
Gouging isn't a forced action.
There are a lot of cost in operating a business after a storm and I see NOTHING wrong at all with business that are open raising prices. It is foolish not to give businesses incentive to get back open. Higher prices do that.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:24 am to cwill
So what? You know what is worse? keeping your business closed.
Gouging laws remove incentives for businesses to reopen quickly because there is no question their cost of doing business is much higher with no electricity and employees on double time ect.
Gouging laws remove incentives for businesses to reopen quickly because there is no question their cost of doing business is much higher with no electricity and employees on double time ect.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:26 am to Stingray
quote:
it is capitalism doing the best job possible of allocating limited resources to where they are best needed.
Everyone needs water. Everyone needs food. I am a conservative and all about capitalism, but gouging on those isn't capitalism.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:27 am to cwill
quote:
People have an innate sense of fairness and gouging just triggers a negative response.
I wouldn't think it was very fair if I sold out of all my important supplies to people who bought way more than they needed and left none for people who may have needed it even worse than they did.
There are two sides to the morality argument.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:32 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Nonsense, price gouging is a real thing. For example, if you own a grocery store in town and are selling bottled water for $1 a bottle and then a natural disaster, or what have you , occurs and you raise the price to $15 a bottle, that's price gouging. Has nothing to do with "capitalism" that is simply taking advantage of people at that point.
Great so in the event we have some dipshit buying all the water up at below-demand levels, we run into a shortage so the little ole granny down the street who was willing to pay the correct market clearing price for a short term supply of water gets fricked over.
And when logistics costs blow out due the damage and inherent bottlenecks caused by the storm, and it becomes uneconomical for the supply chain to replenish the water, the shortages persist.
Good thinking! But we are the morons.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:37 am to Stingray
quote:
capitalism doing the best job possible of allocating limited resources to where they can be exchanged for the most money
Need and affordability are not the same thing. You can't say poor people need something less because they can't afford it.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:42 am to Lou Pai
Giving away free commodities is very wrong too.
True story. After Katrina Bush sent all that ice down here. Load and loads of ice. Our company was asked if we could help unload a couple of trucks in the middle of town. There was this massive line of people waiting. We unloaded the ice in two or three hours---I bet you 50% of the ice we unloaded went into coolers half filled with beer. When the ice was gone there was an old lady that need some for her insulin that did not get any. I ran down one of the rednecks with a beer cooler and gave him $5 for his ice so the old lady would have some.
If the government had charged even a $1 a bag for the ice they would have needed only a third of what they sent down here. It was embarrassing to seen the number of people who would stand in line for hours for free ice or free MREs. My neighbor offered me 2 boxes of friggin MRE he stood in line for 3 hours to get (he got 10) simply because he nothing else to do and wanted them for his deer camp.
True story. After Katrina Bush sent all that ice down here. Load and loads of ice. Our company was asked if we could help unload a couple of trucks in the middle of town. There was this massive line of people waiting. We unloaded the ice in two or three hours---I bet you 50% of the ice we unloaded went into coolers half filled with beer. When the ice was gone there was an old lady that need some for her insulin that did not get any. I ran down one of the rednecks with a beer cooler and gave him $5 for his ice so the old lady would have some.
If the government had charged even a $1 a bag for the ice they would have needed only a third of what they sent down here. It was embarrassing to seen the number of people who would stand in line for hours for free ice or free MREs. My neighbor offered me 2 boxes of friggin MRE he stood in line for 3 hours to get (he got 10) simply because he nothing else to do and wanted them for his deer camp.
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 11:46 am
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:42 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I wouldn't think it was very fair if I sold out of all my important supplies to people who bought way more than they needed and left none for people who may have needed it even worse than they did.
There are two sides to the morality argument.
Easily solved by limiting quantity per customer.
And there is a difference raising the prices to reflect the currents circumstances, and taking advantage of current circumstances to gouge people. To further the Water example I gave earlier, that was in Houston last year. Most places in town were selling water at $5 a bottle , quite the hike from $1 a bottle pre storm, but understandable given the circumstances. Those places were not accused of price gouging. A few other places , mostly in poor neighborhoods by the way, were charging %9-10 a bottle for the same water. Those places WERE charged with price gouging.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:44 am to AggieDub14
quote:
Need and affordability are not the same thing. You can't say poor people need something less because they can't afford it.
Give the poor money if you want but do not limit supplies of goods and services by restricting pricing.
Only the most naive fail to see that price gouging laws restrict the natural flow of goods and services into a storm area.
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 11:48 am
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:49 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Easily solved by limiting quantity per customer.
When a person shows up for water, how do you determine he in fact does have a family of eight back home, and does need much more that the guy who lives by himself?
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:50 am to weagle99
If all the idiots that live in areas that are routinely affected by natural disasters would keep a stock of the essentials, instead of running to the grocery store just before the disaster and buying 9 cases of water, 10 gallons of milk, and 5 loaves of bread, there would not be a shortage up front and gouging after...
However, if you are not smart enough to prepare, then in many respects, you kinda deserve to be gouged some...
However, if you are not smart enough to prepare, then in many respects, you kinda deserve to be gouged some...
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:50 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Easily solved by limiting quantity per customer.
So your answer to a problem created by government is more government involvement.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:53 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Easily solved by limiting quantity per customer.
And if they are buying for multiple people who are injured and/or trapped?
Posted on 9/10/18 at 11:54 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
All of this will breakdown into how to best allocate scare resources in a time of need. And when people’s live depends on those resources, no one really has the best answer for that. Radio lab had an excellent podcast about how doctors allocated scarce resources, like oxygen, at a hospital in New Orleans after Katrina. It’s one of the most eye opening podcast ever, here’s a link if any of you are interested in listening to it
LINK
LINK
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