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Started By
Message
re: Pope, we must avoid rigid ideologies
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:03 am to Revelator
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:03 am to Revelator
quote:
No, but religion/church does. What does this even mean?
It means that as times change, so does religion/church.
Not sure how this can even be a controversial statement.
Are the churches the same as you grew up in?
Has their message changed?
What about in the 1800’s?
The message of church changes with time. If not, they would go extinct.
5
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:03 am to Revelator
quote:
So what’s preventing them?
Guilt instilled in them by their parents.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:04 am to Revelator
As an outsider, and non-Catholic, this pope is unrecognizable to me as being Catholic.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:18 am
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:06 am to Revelator
quote:
So many Catholics want so badly to become Protestant
quote:
So what’s preventing them?
I mean, I would argue that Sedevacantism is Protestantism.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:06 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
It means that as times change, so does religion/church. Not sure how this can even be a controversial statement. Are the churches the same as you grew up in? Has their message changed? What about in the 1800’s? The message of church changes with time. If not, they would go extinct.
But the truth does not change. We forget that in this culture of “good is bad” and “right is wrong.”
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:07 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
the Church isn’t making announcements of broad-sweeping changes,
This is usually not how change occurs. It usually happens incrementally. And this is what the pope is trying to achieve.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:29 am
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:10 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
Are the churches the same as you grew up in?
Yes.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:13 am to Stitches
quote:
So many Catholics want so badly to become Protestant.
Uh, there are many going the other way. The Protestant denominations are a real shite show right now. Many have been taken over by radical gay and trans activists.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:14 am to Stitches
quote:
So many Catholics want so badly to become Protestant.
Swaying around to pop bands at church?
No thanks.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:15 am to SloaneRanger
I agree. I was referring to the Sede's within the Catholic Church.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:20 am to Revelator
quote:
I guess truth has to morph with the times?!
Finally something you and the pope can agree on.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:23 am to Revelator
quote:
It usually happens incrementally. And this what the pope is trying to achieve.
Are we talking about his recent “blessing” controversy in which:
quote:
inadmissible “rites and prayers that could create confusion between what constitutes marriage” and “what contradicts it,” by avoiding any implication that “something that is not marriage is being recognized as marriage.” It is reiterated that according to the “perennial Catholic doctrine” only sexual relations between a man and a woman in the context of marriage are considered lawful.
quote:
It is recalled that “from a strictly liturgical point of view,” the blessing requires that what is blessed “be conformed to God’s will, as expressed in the teachings of the Church.”
“When a blessing is invoked on certain human relationships” through a special liturgical rite, the Declaration notes, “it is necessary that what is blessed corresponds with God’s designs written in creation” (par. 11). Therefore, the Church does not have the power to impart a liturgical blessing on irregular or same-sex couples. It is also necessary to avoid the risk of reducing the meaning of blessings to this point of view only, expecting for a simple blessing “the same moral conditions for a simple blessing that are called for in the reception of the sacraments” (par. 12).
I mean, he flat out calls homosexuals living in union ‘irregular.’ Seems like if anyone else used this language it would be inflammatory. Sort of further goes on to talk about how what they’re doing is not ok. Now, if I recall, there was at least a little controversy when Jesus sought out the sinners (prostitutes, tax collectors) and brought them to righteousness (not once blessing what they did or their sin but recognizing their worth as humans created in the image and likeness of God).
And then in the second quote on ‘rigid ideologies’ he never mentioned the first speech/publication at all.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:25 am to Revelator
quote:
PBS
I wouldn't trust secular media to accurately portray what Pope Francis and others in the Church say. First, they don't understand Catholic tradition and doctrine as well as they should, and they usually have a bias and agenda to push. While Catholic news services will have a bias and agenda to push as well, at-least they have a sufficient understanding of Catholic tradition and teaching.
It's ironic actually, when it comes to American politics we never trust main stream media, but when it comes to reporting on the church we seem to take it as Gospel.
I'm hesitant to comment on what a secular news outlet reports on what Pope Francis says, without seeing the text and context.
What I believe Francis is responding to is what he sense as positivism, or an ideology that is only concerned with rules and not the reasons or logic behind the rules, and ultimately the common good they are designed to uphold . While it is good to follow laws and rules, a strict blind obedience to them is not. Sometimes rules aren't best to follow in a specific situation. A good example might be this, Catholics are bound to attend mass every Sunday, however if the weather makes it dangerous to attend or they are sick, someone shouldn't be bound to attend mass. Positivism would say you must go to mass no matter what, doing what is just would be to stay home when it may be dangerous to go, or you might get other people sick.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:25 am to Stitches
quote:
He answers this in the article you posted. He stated that since Vatican 2, the church has been divided between conservatives and progressives, but should instead be united as two lovers who have lost the flame, but are always striving to listen to one another and to others so they can evolve to truly offer service to the Catholic Church. In other words, fight for truth, not preconceived rigid ideologies.
The Bible says that light has no no fellowship with darkness. And by their nature, doctrines are rigid ideologies.
The Bible is clear about topics like homosexuality, but progressives don’t like its language and want it to change. So, if there is compromise as the pope suggests, that compromise will be towards darkness and not light.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:34 am
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:26 am to Revelator
quote:
I guess truth has to morph with the times?!
"Evolve". Pope and the American Commicrats are in-sync.
This guy is going to destroy the Catholic church. Congrats.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:28 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
It means that as times change, so does religion/church. Not sure how this can even be a controversial statement.
It’s very controversial. Truth is truth and it doesn’t change to adapt to societies whims.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:28 am to Revelator
someone needs to tap the pope on the shoulder and let him know it aint the 11th century any more. the pope has no authority and nobody gives a flying f*** what he has to say.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 7:29 am
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:29 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
It's ironic actually, when it comes to American politics we never trust main stream media, but when it comes to reporting on the church we seem to take it as Gospel.
Say it louder for the people in the back.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:31 am to Tesla
quote:
But the truth does not change. We forget that in this culture of “good is bad” and “right is wrong.”
Disagree.
Let’s look at things like:
Number of planets
Shape of earth
Food pyramid promoted by gov’t
Covid
Cigarettes/smoking
Asbestos
Slavery
All those conventional wisdoms/truths have changed with times.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 7:31 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
I mean, he flat out calls homosexuals living in union ‘irregular.’
And then talks abut giving them a blessing. This is doublespeak and a clear sign of someone trying to walk the fence.
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