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re: Per Bannon: Graham thinks he has a veto proof bill on Ukraine.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:25 am to momentoftruth87
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:25 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
So Trump can’t get anything done with his own congress but he convinced Congress while they were trying to arrest and kill him. Makes a lot of sense.
You think Graham and Trump are siloed on Ukraine and aren't working in concert? He's Trump's lap dog, I find that hard to believe.
I do think Graham is a neocon so his interests aren't the same as Trump. Graham is also a political operator who knows Ukraine isn't winning this war in any meaningful sense. So I think he and Trump are aligned - Graham wants to find a way for Ukraine to claim some level of victory, and Trump wants to end the war in a way that he can claim victory for himself. So both are playing their parts, and I think that's been going on since before the election for sure.
0
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:25 am to momentoftruth87
You're right, he did it even before he won the election! 
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:26 am to BCreed1
quote:
That's a great way to lose the house and the senate.
Republicans need stronger party leadership.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:27 am to Pettifogger
Yeah, SFP and Boosie have said he is used to thinking he can solve everything with money/economic deals and he can't really do that here.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:27 am to RogerTheShrubber
We need stronger party leadership for the new party not the old feckless version.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:27 am to loogaroo
Bannon said that Musk got into a fist fight with Bessent
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:29 am to LSU Patrick
quote:
We need stronger party leadership for the new party
Why?
You Democrat lites took over the Republican party, imported class warfare and when it fails you want to bail and do your own thing?
frick, why didn you dispshits do this from the beginning?
This post was edited on 6/3/25 at 11:30 am
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:30 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
Yeah, SFP and Boosie have said he is used to thinking he can solve everything with money/economic deals and he can't really do that here.
It's not just that. He's used to negotiating from the "big bully" position and as long as Europe is sitting there promising they'll help Ukraine, this position is not an option. This is what happened after his big planned press conference blowup with Z. Europe immediately swooped in and said they would protect Ukraine and Trump lost all of his leverage.
He actually has to negotiate here from a neutral or possibly lesser position and it's not going well so far.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:31 am to SlowFlowPro
I agree, although I think the same credibility issues exist there (ie, can and will the EU be able to meaningfully sustain this for Ukraine absent US support).
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:33 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Trump doesn't have a good move yet, and he's used to having a A, B and C options on issues because that's how he sets them up. I think it was SFP who articulated this recently, but this is a black and white issue at least as far as ending the war. There is plenty of gray in how it ends, but it has to end and thus far Trump has been unable to set up a scenario where there are a handful of ways it goes and all are something he can claim as successes. And I don't think he's used to that.
- I think Trump got into office, heard the IC reports/etc. and became convinced that handing Russia a clear cut win was bad.
- I think Trump, despite his bluster, doesn't want to be the guy who "abandons" Ukraine and allows Russia to score a win over a country the US has propped up.
- I think Trump knows that unfortunately there are some Ukraine-obsessed people in the party and in addition to the above, "abandonment" would screw up other elements of his agenda in what is going to be a very limited time period to work within.
This seems like a good level-headed analysis of the situation, or at least a reasonable theory.
It's nice to see sometimes in the midst of all the other worthless rage bait.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:34 am to Chief One Word
"double reverse psychology"
Is this fricking real?
Is this fricking real?
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:35 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You Democrat lites took over the Republican party
Okay, Mitch. Whatever you say. You and your ilk allowed Obama and Biden to destroy the country. Stay in retirement.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:37 am to Pettifogger
quote:
although I think the same credibility issues exist there (ie, can and will the EU be able to meaningfully sustain this for Ukraine absent US support).
You're right, but until they're tested, the threat is there.
And I think we all agree that Trump can't live with the potential that the EU/NATO, who he's tried to make into an enemy, solving the problem without us. He'd look terrible in that scenario and that isn't an option for him internally.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:37 am to LSU Patrick
quote:
You and your ilk
Want the same things you wanted 10 years ago.
Youve changed, and accepted progressive ideals, I havent changed at all.
Go start your own party instead of hijacking one you dont fit into
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:41 am to loogaroo
Why does the bill have to be veto-proof?
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:41 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Whelp, let's pass it and see. I kind of need to see Trump veto Ukraine funding.
Agreed. Trump should take a stand and send a message that he'll support the primary opponent of any Republican who votes to overturn his veto. He should also immediately take it to the American people and say if you don't want a war with Russia, call your representatives every day.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Youve changed, and accepted progressive ideals, I havent changed at all.
I don’t support a single “progressive” policy. For a person of supposed “substance,” you sure spew a lot of shite. Change was and is needed, not so much on policy as on backbone and follow through. If you can’t see that, you should probably just check out of politics for the remainder of your days.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And I think we all agree that Trump can't live with the potential that the EU/NATO, who he's tried to make into an enemy, solving the problem without us. He'd look terrible in that scenario and that isn't an option for him internally.
Definitely agree.
Although for many of us, the outcome would be ideal. Egg on his face or not, Ukraine staying in the fight without our involvement and the EU handling its own issues (or not) sounds perfect.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:52 am to LSU Patrick
quote:
I don’t support a single “progressive” policy
The BBB
Trumps activist Govt
Working class collectivism..
Yes, youre damn near socialist.
Posted on 6/3/25 at 11:53 am to wdhalgren
quote:
Agreed. Trump should take a stand and send a message that he'll support the primary opponent of any Republican who votes to overturn his veto. He should also immediately take it to the American people and say if you don't want a war with Russia, call your representatives every day.
Guys the veto proof bill doesn't exist.
It's an invention to avoid the below, which would impair Trump's leverage with Putin:
"Congress is going to do it, Vlad"
"Well you can veto it, Don"
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