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Started By
Message
re: People should wear masks for the economy.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:37 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'd wager the vast majority of healthy people dying at that time were hospital workers who encountered massive viral loads all day long
That is an opinion. Healthy people did not die, if they did it was for other reasons WHILE they had Covid.
If I have Covid and die of choking on Whataburger, I will be a Covid Death
0
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:37 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Outlaw alcohol.....
does a person engaging in personal responsibility consume alcohol in a way that affects others?
quote:
Mandatory exercise period 5 days a week for all US Citizens.....
does a person engaging in personal responsibility ignore physical exercise?
quote:
Outlaw candy, cake and other high-sugar foods....
does a person engaging in personal responsibility eat these foods irresponsibly?
quote:
Limit all married couples to 1 child.....
does a person engaging in personal responsibility have more kids than he/she can afford?
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'm arguing for personal responsibility
This is my way of seeing it too, but it's become an identity issue, and refusing to wear it has become symbolic of resistance to authorities who direct us to do such things.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:37 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Wut?
it's a strawman
i never advocated for government mandates of mask wearing
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:38 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
b. it even says they aren't sure about the mechanisms of transmission
That's kind of the point. If it's fine-particle aerosols, which seems to be the case based on the worry concerning ACs, your cloth or even surgical mask isn't going to do shite.
quote:
that study says that hand washing, masks, and cleaning surfaces don't really stop transmission of the flu, btw
I know what it's looking at. ILI is the best proxy we have currently, and that's sort of how science works. But then again, there may be some SARS 1.0 and MERS studies out there.
SARS 2.0 and flu A are roughly the same size. Masks likely would work the same for SARS 2.0 as they do for flu...which means not really at all.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:38 am to TigerDoc
quote:
This is my way of seeing it too, but it's become an identity issue, and refusing to wear it has become symbolic of resistance to authorities who direct us to do such things.
This would ONLY be relevant if masks worked!
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they were in major panic control
i mean our society had already bought up all the fricking toilet paper, so it was a legitimate concern at the time
Read the entire exchange again. Are you disputing the bolded parts below?
quote:
LaPook: There’s a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that?
Fauci: The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.
LaPook: You’re sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this.
Fauci: …There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.
LaPook: And can you get some schmutz, sort of staying inside there?
Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks, you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who, when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks — that’s fine, that’s fine. I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine.
LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks?
Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:42 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you just proved my point. you wearing a mask isn't about you
Oh, I've been told.
It's about keeping those around me safe! Maybe they should make better personal choices.
And if you're saying it is MY personal responsibility to do what is "right" for the greater good of humanity and the economy all that, then spare me.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:40 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:39 am to therick711
quote:
If personal responsibility is your ethos, then let people decide what they think they should do.
i'm just saying they're not acting responsibly
people are emotionally reacting to this. you can see the hyperbole and emotional-irrational responses in this thread
quote:
If you're scared, stay your arse at home.
i'm not scared
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:39 am to BarberitosDawg
I work in the pharmaceutical industry. In particular, I work around facilities where drugs are manufactured. Masks aid in primarily preventing the spread of microorganisms in the form of bacteria. Bacteria cells are approximately 0.5 - 5.0 micrometers in size. A virus however, is much smaller. A virus is around .005 - 0.3 micrometers. I've held a particle counter in front of a person wearing a mask where I've asked them to talk in the direction of the particle counter. This is from a distance of approximately 1 foot. Our counter measures particles = 0.3 micrometers.
The mask absolutely does not block particles of 0.3 micrometers.
I've also had them exhale vigorously or blow into the masks while measuring particles from about 3 feet away. This causes the counter to go wild at 0.3 micrometers.
I can see wearing masks, especially cheap, homemade constructions would absolutely be ineffective and could in fact even worsen matters. Mainly from folks getting a false sense of security as some have pointed out.
The mask absolutely does not block particles of 0.3 micrometers.
I've also had them exhale vigorously or blow into the masks while measuring particles from about 3 feet away. This causes the counter to go wild at 0.3 micrometers.
I can see wearing masks, especially cheap, homemade constructions would absolutely be ineffective and could in fact even worsen matters. Mainly from folks getting a false sense of security as some have pointed out.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'm not scared
Then take off the mask.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:40 am to SlowFlowPro
They are selling masks for the general public not recommended for health care workers. Glad you at least have a decent mask. Change it often and always wash every chance you get. Best thing to do.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:40 am to Smedium27
quote:
I do not think you realize what you just said. Te government lied saying the mask do not work so they can save some for hospital workers.
If this is true, then if this virus was actually killing people who were healthy, the government knowingly killed them all because they had to save mask for hospital workers. This is borderline Genocide, but instead of attacking a race , they are attacking everyone who is not in healthcare. Thats pretty scary man
Also...keeping people out of the hospitals, if masks work, would protect hospital workers...
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:41 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
I don't get the opposition in retrospect back when I was in Japan in 1984 people wore masks when they felt they might have a contagious cold and it was the law.
This isn't Japan. Someone at customs should have told you when you got back.
quote:
After returning I felt the scroungy American hygiene was outdated.
Maybe you should go back to Japan, then.
quote:
If everyone participated this thing would diminish rather quickly.
This isn't going anywhere until November 4th. Then it will be a minor matter, if mentioned at all.
You know it, I know it and the American people know it. Pretending it is about "health" or "safety" or even "hygiene" is insulting.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:42 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:41 am to therick711
quote:
This would ONLY be relevant if masks worked!
But unless you've got expert knowledge in the interpretation of various medical sciences and data sciences personally and have the time to weed through the research, the way people decide that masks work is through the epistemic chain of trusted authorities. If you trust public health authorities and the media or politicians advocating their use then you're inclined to believe, and if you don't, you're not.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:43 am
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:41 am to TigerDoc
quote:
and refusing to wear it has become symbolic of resistance to authorities who direct us to do such things.
why i brought up the "fiscal conservative" example earlier
people are just shifting based on their current "teams" and have no core principles
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:41 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
when I was in Japan in 1984 people wore masks when they felt they might have a contagious cold and it was the law
How do you enforce a law over how someone feels?
I've never felt like I've had a cold, guess I'm good to skip the mask.
Also, what if I feel sick with a non-contagious cold?
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:42 am to Ace Midnight
You guys are kidding yourselves if you think Biden and the left will just “drop” Covid
This is the best avenue for power / change since 9/11
This is the best avenue for power / change since 9/11
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:42 am to TigerDoc
quote:
But unless you've got expert knowledge in the interpretation of various medical sciences and data sciences personally and have the time to weed through the research, the way people decide that masks work is through the epistemic chain of trusted authorities. If you trust public health authorities and the media you're inclined to believe, and if you don't, you're not.
This would ONLY be relevant if masks were not mandated by those people. Since many places have mask mandates, it is not relevant in those places.
Posted on 7/17/20 at 9:43 am to Barstools
quote:
How do you enforce a law over how someone feels?
You don't. You put the burden on the fearful to withdraw from society.
This post was edited on 7/17/20 at 9:43 am
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