Started By
Message

re: Open Invitation: Explain How the Immigration EO is Unconstitutional

Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:18 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464874 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

Our immigration policy is discriminatory.

every law is discriminatory

our constitution says certain types of discrimination violate our constitution
Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
40081 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:18 pm to
quote:


The 1st Amendment deals with laws pass by "Congress." It has been incorporated against the 50 states. How would that apply to the president, who is neither Congress nor a state?


Well the president took this action under 1182(f), an act of congress.
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
22015 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

i already said there is one potential constitutional issue (religious preference/discrimination)



I agree with you, but let's be honest. The outrage would go nowhere if the Christian language alone were removed.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
26097 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

every law is discriminatory

our constitution says certain types of discrimination violate our constitution


I'm not sure our constitution says that, first of all, but that is a minor point. The major point is that the government can discriminate against noncitizens who are not under our jurisdiction as much as they want on whatever basis they want.
Posted by ELVIS U
Member since Feb 2007
11498 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:20 pm to
It most certainly isn't unconstitutional. It was rather poorly drafted, but that doesn't make it unconstitutional.
Posted by SportTiger1
Stonewall, LA
Member since Feb 2007
29830 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

Do the protections of the United States Constitution extend to people who are not citizens or otherwise legal residents of the US?

Pretty sure our soldiers went kicking in door to door in Fallujah...no one cried that the occupants of those homes had their fourth amendment rights violated


What he said. I had no idea the constitution covered folks that aren't even here yet.
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
22015 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

The 1st Amendment deals with laws pass by "Congress." It has been incorporated against the 50 states. How would that apply to the president, who is neither Congress nor a state?


quote:

Well the president took this action under 1182(f), an act of congress.


Ok, so are you saying that 1182(f) is unconstitutional?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464874 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

I'm not sure our constitution says that,

i mean the literal language of the first amendment begins with Congress shall make no law

quote:

The major point is that the government can discriminate against noncitizens who are not under our jurisdiction as much as they want on whatever basis they want.

not without limits
Posted by Vino24
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Member since Mar 2016
1596 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Tigerlaff


You and your OP contain basic knowledge that a vast majority of America's citizens do not comprehend. They just haven't read the letter of the law. I don't know whether that's because they don't know where to find it or they are just lazy and believe what they've generally heard.
I've almost given up explaining the 1st Amendment and how it applies to Congress, etc. to people. Thank you for your service
This post was edited on 1/31/17 at 4:25 pm
Posted by geauxtigahs87
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2008
26663 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Is this illegal or unconstitutional? I honestly don't know but to me it feels shady, un-American, and wrong.

Spoken like a true leftist

Because in the end, its all about how you feel what it is, as opposed to what it actually is.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
26097 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:23 pm to
quote:

i mean the literal language of the first amendment begins with Congress shall make no law


It doesn't say that is discriminatory. It says that is verboten and even then, it isn't verboten because we have TPM regulations, and unprotected speech, and capital S speech arguments, fighting words, etc.
Posted by AggieDub14
Oil Baron
Member since Oct 2015
14973 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:23 pm to
Where does the constitution grant the President the power to create laws?
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
26097 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

not without limits




I am not aware of any limit that has been applied to noncitizens/non-legal residents that are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Got some precedent, counselor?
This post was edited on 1/31/17 at 4:27 pm
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
17329 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

Where does the constitution grant the President the power to create laws


Is that what CNN is saying?
Posted by Ag Zwin
Member since Mar 2016
24865 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

the one argument is religious preference. the part of the EO that gives preferential treatment to "minority religious" (which means Christianity) could be unconstitutional. the rest? should be fine, legally


I'll give you credit for not just saying it prefers Christians, without acknowledging that it has absolutely no such reference.

That being said, the policy of the US has long been that legitimate cases of religious persecution would be given priority. I have learned from my BLM friends that no group that is a majority can ever be a victim of any kind of "-sim", so that means that all religions EXCEPT Islam would be eligible under these criteria.

Now, some will say that even though the wording does not prioritize Christians, the actual outcome will, therefore, it is inherently intended to benefit Christians. Taking that logic train over to the welfare section of the neighborhood, it is reasonably well accepted that welfare creates a dependance on government help and disincentivizes achievement. So, the myriad social engineering legislation of the last 50 years that has disproportionately benefited/enslaved inner city African Americans was intended to keep them beholden to the government. Is this right?

Disparity of outcome is not the same as disparity in access. Even if it were, the fact that Syria is 87% Muslim and 10% Christian, yet last years immigration was 99 and 1, respectively, would tell me that we have some making up to do. Time for Affirmative Action, right?
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:24 pm to
did you miss the part where I said I would accept the court's ruling on this?
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
22015 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

You and your OP contain basic knowledge that a vast majority of America's citizens do not comprehend. They just haven't read the letter to the law. I don't know whether that's because they don't know where to find it or are just lazy and believe what they're generally heard.

I've almost given up explaining the 1st Amendment and how it applies to Congress, etc. to people. Thank you for your service


Makes me mad seeing armchair lawyers rave about what is and isn't constitutional. Lazy form of argument.
Posted by AggieDub14
Oil Baron
Member since Oct 2015
14973 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:25 pm to
See you laugh, but the Executive branch of government is not meant to create laws. That is the job of congress.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
26097 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:25 pm to
Also, as far as I know, disparate impact has never escaped the labor context as a doctrine.
Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
40081 posts
Posted on 1/31/17 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

Ok, so are you saying that 1182(f) is unconstitutional?


No, but I'm saying I believe the strongest (albeit still weak) argument to be made is that Trump's actions under the statute are unconstitutional. I'm not convinced any part of the order is unconstitutional.
first pageprev pagePage 4 of 8Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram