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re: Only empires are indivisible.

Posted on 6/1/23 at 6:21 am to
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
49478 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 6:21 am to
Question -
"Did the war start to end slavery in the southern states?"

OR

"Did the war start to keep the southern states from seceding?"

i.e. = Was ending slavery the 'cause' of the war - or a 'rallying cry' to continue the war?

Saying that 'the war was fought over slavery' is really no different than saying 'the war was fought over economics.'

Slavery was a moral issue - it was there at the founding and the souther states joined the union in good faith - "devotion of lives, fortunes and sacred honor" to form the union and there were no crossed fingers. The constitution was adopted to "form a more perfect union" admitting that the current arrangement was imperfect - and work still needed to be done to reach 'perfection'

I would argue that the union as it existed in 1859 is FAR superior to the union that exists in 2023 in terms of cultural norms of individual freedom, liberty, and moral backbone of the individual citizen

all with the exception of blacks.

HOWEVER - I would also posit that had there been a peaceful separation, that TODAY the blacks would still have been freed prior to yesterday - and furthermore, the black population who attained that freedom would be generations ahead of our current population in terms of economics, communal peace, and individual responsibility.

Advances in mechanization and power generation would have eliminated the economic dependence on slave labor. And since there was no natural animosity (and this is not to discount the existence of sinful behavior - same as today) between the races, 'things would have worked out.'

And I will also posit that had Lincoln lived, our future would have been much different, even given the animosities of the War.

What went wrong = the avarice of the DEMOCRAT party. The democrat party cannot survive without CONSTANT DISSATISFACTION with the 'current situation' - they are NEVER content to devote their actions to upholding 'to form a more perfect union' = and instead, interpret that as 'do whatever it takes to maintain absolute control'

Democrats cannot exist without huge swaths of poverty - hence their every 'economic' agenda is to ensure the expansion of the poverty-stricken population.

Democrat cannot exist without huge percentages of unhappy people - hence their every 'fix problems' issue is to ensure there are more avenues of 'defining unhappiness' within the population.

Democrats cannot survive with an informed population - hence their every activity is to reduce the educational prospects of their subjects and continually feed them political narratives rather than merely 'reporting the news' and allowing the people to decide what is the best way forward.

The Democrats have established an unholy oligarchy - were immensely wealthy interests control all so much of the information that the public at large is allowed to access that they can safely do as they please and blame the worsening situation on "those nasty racists and ______homophobes."

And unfortunately, blacks are their target audience, the one great block of humanity they have - from the beginning - held down to the lowest possible state of existence, blaming all failures of blacks to advance on the 'avarice of the dasdardly republicans' - and excoriating ANY black who manages to ESCAPE their plantation of menial servants.

Democrats have feasted off the misery of the black population for 150 years, and work constantly to maintain their 'owned property' hold on their opportunities for self-advancement.

Lincoln's great desire to 'eliminate slavery' only worked to re-define the actual terms of 'slavery.'
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
37372 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 7:02 am to
Oh please, the empire is still quite robust. The dollar is just fine if you are smart enough to understand how a reserve currency works.....which so many on this board do not .

Wanna see chaos go for secession/dissolution. First, it's never gonna happen.....not without chaos and lots of violence....you think it doesn't need to be that way, we have empirical proof though that it does end that way , see the period from 1861 -1865 for reference.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
82159 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 7:06 am to
How's that premise holding up?


Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138491 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 7:50 am to
quote:

Deo Vindice
In the world of odd mottos, deo vindice has to be close to the oddist in its application.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:07 am to
quote:

How's that premise holding up?



What is that map supposed to show? That the Roman Empire existed as a distinct political entity for another millenia after the West fell, or that it had several successor states that existed up until the 20th century?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:13 am to
quote:

The empire is crumbling and you have your head so far up your arse you can't see it.


It really isn't.

quote:


I don't need to go hide in the mountains to train, not to beat some punk bitch like you


We were talking about secession my bitch. If you want to leave, raise an army and do it. Otherwise shut up.

quote:

 produce almost half my food on site and have always been adept at fixing and creating things. Knowledge and ability is all a man needs to survive


You're missing a key element.

quote:

The dollar is weakening on the world stage, how will the almighty federal government control others when they have no leverage?


The dollar isn't weakening. The reality of reserve currencies is that you need tertiary markets where balance of payments between two non-American parties can spend that payment on other goods and services. US dollars are still the choice for balance of payments. Between India and China, they might say they want to trade in their own currencies, but that doesn't mean it will happen. In one of the latest funding drives for Indian start-ups, I know for a fact that Chinese investors used dollars rather than yuan, because again, the US exists as a tertiary market which can provide robust goods and services, which Indian start-ups need.

You are hoping and praying that the world is going to conform to your desires. It isn't. Stop being a cuck.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:14 am to
quote:

Advances in mechanization and power generation would have eliminated the economic dependence on slave labor. 


Wrong. The sheer fact of the worker's movements around the world proves that wrong.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:16 am to
quote:

You are happy with the system because it has enriched you financially. What people like you don't understand is some of us define wealth differently. That's something a Yankee like you will never understand. Your whole thought process perfectly excemptlifies the Evil Yankee Empire of the USA.


God sent me down to correct your wicked evil ways. Sorry you can't handle that.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
11003 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:20 am to
quote:

We were talking about secession my bitch.


Then why you referenced more than once about going into the woods to train? In many ways I have already seceded by needing the government for nothing more than some utilities that we all use.

All empires fall. And the signs are there for this one as well. It may not be later today or next Tuesday, but I believe we will recognize it's eventual demise before the end of this decade. At which point, your riches will be worthless.

Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:24 am to
quote:

Please go on another 6 month vacation.
(airkiss)
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 8:38 am to
quote:

Then why you referenced more than once about going into the woods to train?


Because you want secession. It isn't going to happen without violence.

quote:

In many ways I have already seceded by needing the government for nothing more than some utilities that we all use.


Ahahaha. 'Since I'm too weak to see my political goals come to fruition, I have instead retreated to a secession of the mind.' You haven't seceded you insane moron. You're just disaffected and upset the world is never going to see reality.

quote:

All empires fall. And the signs are there for this one as well.


Man, people have been making this claim about the US for a long time. At one point it was what leftists retreated to. The truth is that politically the country is very robust. You just have no experience with actual failed states, so anything that the source of your disaffection is mainly because the culture doesn't reproduce your worldview directly back at you.

quote:

It may not be later today or next Tuesday, but I believe we will recognize it's eventual demise before the end of this decade. At which point, your riches will be worthless.


Lol. I would absolutely take that bet. Empires don't fall suddenly. They often take centuries to completely dissolve.

The US has withstood several shocks the last half-decade without much change. You can't see the forest for the trees though.
This post was edited on 6/1/23 at 8:59 am
Posted by Tigereye78
Member since May 2023
191 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 11:16 am to
You haven't corrected anything you nitwit. Your part of the problem and not the solution.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
11003 posts
Posted on 6/1/23 at 6:12 pm to
quote:

Because you want secession. It isn't going to happen without violence.


Because people like you don't want others to have self determination because it is a threat to your "wealth". You are again aligning yourself with warmongers.

quote:

Ahahaha. 'Since I'm too weak to see my political goals come to fruition, I have instead retreated to a secession of the mind.' You haven't seceded you insane moron. You're just disaffected and upset the world is never going to see reality.


That's an interesting way to respond to someone else becoming self sufficient.

quote:

The truth is that politically the country is very robust


:Laughs in Joe Biden/Mitch McConnell/ Lindsey Graham/Nancy Pelosi/et Al:


Why won't you accept if States decide the union no longer espouses the better interest of that state they should feel free to leave?

Who gives you the authority over any other man to his ambitions?
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