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Message
re: Nick Cruz - who waved his background checks and allowed him the guns?
Posted on 2/28/18 at 11:03 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 2/28/18 at 11:03 am to theunknownknight
The Jonesboro school shooter, Andrew Golden, was 11 when he helped shoot up the middle school in 1998.
He changed his name, but when he applied to buy a gun in 2008 he was charged for trying to buy a firearm.
He was charged as a minor, but is still not allowed to have a firearm. Even if Cruz had violent mental problems while he was a minor he should not have been allowed to buy a firearm.
This was a breakdown in the system.
He changed his name, but when he applied to buy a gun in 2008 he was charged for trying to buy a firearm.
He was charged as a minor, but is still not allowed to have a firearm. Even if Cruz had violent mental problems while he was a minor he should not have been allowed to buy a firearm.
This was a breakdown in the system.
1
Posted on 2/28/18 at 11:06 am to MizzouBS
quote:
He was charged as a minor, but is still not allowed to have a firearm. Even if Cruz had violent mental problems while he was a minor he should not have been allowed to buy a firearm.
This was a breakdown in the system.
Exactly - now marry that with 45 house calls, the FBI having his actual name while committing a felony, him calling the Sheriff and committing the SAME felony on a recorded line after being 18 years old and...
He still gets a gun and just walks up to the school and goes ham right after a huge shooting drill?
This post was edited on 2/28/18 at 11:10 am
Posted on 2/28/18 at 11:44 am to theunknownknight
The FEDs have to trace the chain of custody to learn who holds what firearm. They don't search that in a database.
Scenario: Gun found at scene of crime. Connect serial number to distributor/manufacturer. Locate FFL recipient. Reference appropriate 4473 for original purchaser. Contact original purchaser. Etc, etc, etc...
Also, a NICS check isn't proof of purchase. I've had plenty of people pass the check and walkout with no firearms. It's not reliable for ownership.
There's no central database to show who owns what firearm.
And, this also only applies to federal license holders. Private transactions require no such background check.
Scenario: Gun found at scene of crime. Connect serial number to distributor/manufacturer. Locate FFL recipient. Reference appropriate 4473 for original purchaser. Contact original purchaser. Etc, etc, etc...
Also, a NICS check isn't proof of purchase. I've had plenty of people pass the check and walkout with no firearms. It's not reliable for ownership.
There's no central database to show who owns what firearm.
And, this also only applies to federal license holders. Private transactions require no such background check.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 11:57 am to roadGator
quote:
Yankee POS Israel needs to be tried for murder
Let's not let school officials off the hook, they instigated the cover up of discipline problems even criminal acts committed by students so they could get more federal $$$$ = FRAUD that led to the murder of 17 innocent people.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 12:54 pm to WildManGoose
quote:
There's no central database to show who owns what firearm.
I never said there was - go back and read what I posted - I specifically stated decentralized. The Feds have the data throughout different sources to build your buying profile if they wanted. It’s definitely possible.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 1:39 pm to BACONisMEATcandy
quote:
It is not considered an approval, the store is just legally allowed to sell it at that point if it has not been denied.
My uncle owns a gun store. I got placed on hold when I bought my first handgun. He called me back a few days later saying that they hadn’t heard back anything and it was past the deadline so I could come pick up my gun.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 1:51 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
And why was he not declined when there has been released transcripts of him committing a felony once he turned 18? Why was he not apprehended? You are proving my point. The question in the OP is Why was he not declined?
Either he was no convicted of a felony or it didn't go on his record. If he truly had a felony on his record and has a proceed on his NICS search then that is on the FBI. A gun shop has no control over if someone is denied or can proceed with the purchase.
Again as I said before back ground checks are a joke and should be done away with in it's current form.
quote:
I was simply responding to you saying that you are fooling yourself if you think gun purchases can’t be tracked.
Here is the process form start to finish. An FFL holder purchases a gun from a dealer. He has to log the gun in his log book with the FFL license of the dealer. A purchaser wants to buy the gun. They have to fill out a 4473. It is a felon to lie on a 4473. The FFL holder either calls in or enters in NICS website the information given on the 4473. The FFL folder gets either a proceed, delayed or denied answer from the inquiry. If he receives a denied answer he can not make the transfer, he will face fines and possible jail time for doing so. If he receives a proceed he can transfer the gun to the buyer. He has to log the 4473 number in the log book to reference the 4473 if the ATF wants to see who in on the 4473. That is the end of the transaction. There is no gray area.
What I don't like is there are ways to lie on the 4473 and the transfer can go through and the person lying will only get caught if the commit a crime with that gun, by then it is too late the crime has been committed. I would actually be for everyone getting a pictured permit to be able to buy a gun but no back ground checks required. If you have a concealed carry license you do not have to have a back ground check.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 2:07 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
What I don't like is there are ways to lie on the 4473 and the transfer can go through and the person lying will only get caught if the commit a crime with that gun, by then it is too late the crime has been committed. I would actually be for everyone getting a pictured permit to be able to buy a gun but no back ground checks required.
shite won't change anything. There are simple ways around that too if you are willing to risk it. Given that your hypothetical implies more than one person being willing to risk it, i can't see the logic in your solution
Posted on 2/28/18 at 3:34 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
our post confirms they have data on exactly who the buyer is, who the seller is, the type of gun, the number of guns, and exactly when the sell took place when cross referenced with financial/inventory records.
The FEDs knows exactly when and what you buy when it comes to firearms. They may not give this data out to any Joe Schmo but you are deluding yourselves if you think otherwise
That is some of the most ignorant shite I've ever heard. completely devoid of any factual evidence.
the form has space for up to 4 or 5 "firearms". the seller DOES NOT have to mention make model or serial number. there is even an additional form with a bunch of blank line if they wont fit on the 4473. all the seller is required to say is whether it is a long gun, shotgun, handgun, other, or any combination. Lets say you theunknownknight commit murder and leave the fire arm at the scene. ATF is call and determines a S&W SW40VE serial number: 00069 is indeed the murder weapon. they contact S&W, S&W says they sold that firearm to Academy Sports in Baton Rouge, LA. ATF then physically has to go there and request the logs to figure out who the fire arms was original sold to. if they kept that information you claim they keep in a data base, they would be knocking on your door 15 minutes after they found your POS Sigma 40.
as far as the data bases all that is done is a name check through existing criminal records. if your name matches someone else they can use your birth date to determine you're not some other guy.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:06 pm to tharre4
quote:
as far as the data bases all that is done is a name check through existing criminal records. if your name matches someone else they can use your birth date to determine you're not some other guy.
You really have no concept on how data and applications work do you?
Your FFL, the customer’s IDs, the request timestamp are stored FOREVER in a database. The Feds have the power to pull your financial records on every purchase you’ve ever made since about 2008.
How do you think they are able to pull so much info on a Terrorist so quickly? You, me, little guys are no worry and the Feds don’t want us to truly know how much info they can get on us (see PRISM) so they keep these other processes in place to keep us believing they CANT track it...
But I know they can pull more data on us in a hurry if it gets real. Anyone paying attention after Snowden should never doubt this anymore.
They have WHEN you were in the store, WHERE you were, WHO was selling, and based on financial records IF you made a large purchase and through the FFL they can assertain what left the store based on your FFL activity.
I’m truly shocked at how naive gun owners are in this thread if they think the government can’t track and recreate what goes on in their shops if the situation warrants it.
This post was edited on 2/28/18 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:24 pm to theunknownknight
But there's not. The only entity holding any info linking a specific gun to a specific buyer is the FFL holder. If they had a high profile target under investigation then it could be done, but only by soliciting any seller for 4473 review. That would be extremely convoluted.
Also, like I stated, there need not be any record of private transactions.
Also, like I stated, there need not be any record of private transactions.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:31 pm to theunknownknight
Obama and Holders "Promise" program.
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