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Message
re: New state model for education
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:05 pm to I B Freeman
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:05 pm to I B Freeman
Wrong wrong wrong wrong!
I know better than to believe that I would get more money. Schools simply cannot and will not make a profit. I am a tried and true capitalist, but schools do not create a product the way a factory or store does, and the profits will not be seen for years. That $10,000 you speak of must go to fund the physical plant, technology, etc... An area as small as where I live cannot sustain enough schools to make competition viable. I am assuming one way you would cut costs would be to remove transportation. In that case, many students don't have the means to get to a competitive location. Bureaucracy is bad, but a horrible business model is just as bad or worse. What most private schools do in areas with vouchers is simply do away with transportation and special education in order to create profit (which is still minimal). Their teachers aren't getting paid better by and large.
I know better than to believe that I would get more money. Schools simply cannot and will not make a profit. I am a tried and true capitalist, but schools do not create a product the way a factory or store does, and the profits will not be seen for years. That $10,000 you speak of must go to fund the physical plant, technology, etc... An area as small as where I live cannot sustain enough schools to make competition viable. I am assuming one way you would cut costs would be to remove transportation. In that case, many students don't have the means to get to a competitive location. Bureaucracy is bad, but a horrible business model is just as bad or worse. What most private schools do in areas with vouchers is simply do away with transportation and special education in order to create profit (which is still minimal). Their teachers aren't getting paid better by and large.
2
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:09 pm to Bamapossum
quote:
I know better than to believe that I would get more money.
Are you too dumb to make money getting paid say $300,000 to teach 30 kids in a classroom you own?? That is what could happen if all funding was vouchers and ban be used at any school. Bamapossum High could exist. You could teach in your back yard as far as I am concerned.
The short sighted, small thinking among teachers and education folks in general is our biggest problem.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:32 pm to Bamapossum
quote:I'm not talking about these things.
1. School choice is a lie, and thinking vouchers will open new ones is a bigger lie
quote:True
Why? Schools are not profitable
quote:False
Never have been. Never will be.
quote:I'm not talking about school choice
Most areas are simply too rural to offer school choice.
quote:I agree. Most of our comparative testing is not comparing similar populations.
2. Comparing US test scores to foreign scores is comparing apples to custom grown square watermelons.
As for the rest of your post. It wasn't uninteresting. I just don't know why it was posted in response to me.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 10:24 pm to cssamerican
quote:
Only two subjects taught in elementary school. Arithmetic and English, with recess breaks for kids to blow off energy.
My kids public elementary school pretty much does this already (not counting lunch, recess). They have 6 periods a day. 2 are ELA (English/Reading). 2 are Math. 1 is enrichment (2 days a week PE, 1 day a week Library, 1 day a week PBIS (positive behavior class), 1 day a week art), and 1 period either Science or Social Studies (they do 2 weeks of Science, then 2 weeks of Social Studies, etc).
Posted on 5/20/18 at 10:36 pm to Bamapossum
Good post. I disagree that schools cant be profitable. The main reason they cant be profitable is because there are free alternatives. I have no disagreements about rural schools. You may just be stuck with what you got.
No they arent. You dont have to pay back vouchers. Take direct payments away from schools..return that money to the taxpayer(unless you dont pay taxes...then thank the next guy you see driving a nice car for funding your childs education).
Right now Johnny has no choice. Hes stuck in mandated daycare. Johnny has no use for English literature or Calculus. He needs to be learning a skill, and/or flipping burgers to make some money.
Schools also need choice. They need the strings cut from the doofuses on the board of education and superintendent who need to keep those funds rolling in from the state capitol and DC. They need to be able to tell kids who disrupt class...not to come back. No in school suspension...go find another school. These entitled parents that make teacher's lives hell...would be changing their tune with the quickness.
Why? Because 8-3 model school sucks. If your kid is reasonably smart, he will be fine because all the other kids are subjected to the same shitty schooling. Public school A really is no different than public school B if the demographics are roughly the same.
Heres the thing...you are right about kids being prepared. Its not like American kids are like trained monkeys when compared to the rest of the world. Bridges still get built, roads paved, banks give out loans, new businesses open every day. People can get by with knowing how to read, write, do simple math(which some school systems cant teach in 13 years of mandated school). Ultimately school is a massive waste of time for the vast majority other than learning how to interact with and work with others.
My ultimate goal would be to make the education process...not a waste of time.
quote:
Aren't vouchers just another approach to Pell Grants and student loans?
No they arent. You dont have to pay back vouchers. Take direct payments away from schools..return that money to the taxpayer(unless you dont pay taxes...then thank the next guy you see driving a nice car for funding your childs education).
quote:
2. Comparing US test scores to foreign scores is comparing apples to custom grown square watermelons. We teach and test EVERYBODY who goes to school in this country, AND we send EVERYBODY to school. Only the best and brightest even get to go to school in many countries. While little Johnny Merican with a 78 IQ and his many similar friends are attempting to take the ACT (I am not shitting you), little Kim Wong with a 78 IQ is working in a lithium mine, sewing Nikes, or making Iphones.
Right now Johnny has no choice. Hes stuck in mandated daycare. Johnny has no use for English literature or Calculus. He needs to be learning a skill, and/or flipping burgers to make some money.
Schools also need choice. They need the strings cut from the doofuses on the board of education and superintendent who need to keep those funds rolling in from the state capitol and DC. They need to be able to tell kids who disrupt class...not to come back. No in school suspension...go find another school. These entitled parents that make teacher's lives hell...would be changing their tune with the quickness.
quote:
3. The mass majority of Americans, regardless of their race or gender, are more concerned with the distance of the school from their workplace, the sports possibilities, or how "prestigious" the school appears, rather than actual results
Why? Because 8-3 model school sucks. If your kid is reasonably smart, he will be fine because all the other kids are subjected to the same shitty schooling. Public school A really is no different than public school B if the demographics are roughly the same.
Heres the thing...you are right about kids being prepared. Its not like American kids are like trained monkeys when compared to the rest of the world. Bridges still get built, roads paved, banks give out loans, new businesses open every day. People can get by with knowing how to read, write, do simple math(which some school systems cant teach in 13 years of mandated school). Ultimately school is a massive waste of time for the vast majority other than learning how to interact with and work with others.
My ultimate goal would be to make the education process...not a waste of time.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:01 pm to dixiechick
quote:
vouchers for all would be devastating for our private schools by tieing them to govt funding/regulation.
Maybe if the state attaches strings to the vouchers...in that case private schools are free to tell the state to go to hell and keep their vouchers.
My plan would not attach strings to vouchers.
quote:
If we are going to tax citizens in order to provide public education, that money1) needs to stay in the public system 2) must have a locally ELECTED board to govern the system the money funds. It’s called taxation WITH representation!!
I dont even know how to respond to this. Is this an argument? Its gibberish. What if the people who share your values and who you vote for lose? They still get your money and you have no say.
quote:
How about just don’t take it in the first place and let me use it as I choose
Because we live in reality.
quote:
Unless of course the goal IS to have government control over every student and school.
Im not sure who you are referring to or whose voucher plan you are talking about. Maybe "voucher" is a scary trigger word for you that initiates your Teachers Union pre-programmed talking points. In my hypothetical plan, there isnt government control of any schools who take vouchers.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:48 pm to bamafan1001
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/1/20 at 11:32 am
Posted on 5/21/18 at 5:51 am to dixiechick
quote:
And hypothetical it will remain. This will never be the case. Please go back to the drawing board for your new and improved model for education
Figured you were just a shill
Posted on 5/21/18 at 6:43 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
My kids public elementary school pretty much does this already (not counting lunch, recess). They have 6 periods a day. 2 are ELA (English/Reading). 2 are Math. 1 is enrichment (2 days a week PE, 1 day a week Library, 1 day a week PBIS (positive behavior class), 1 day a week art), and 1 period either Science or Social Studies (they do 2 weeks of Science, then 2 weeks of Social Studies, etc).
So, your kids go to school for about 7 hours. They have lunch and recess, let’s say 1 hour. If for each period they leave the room (either for recess, lunch, enrichment, or subject change) that is 5 minutes to put up their books and get their stuff together and another 5 minutes to settle down and get ready for class when they return. In this case they blew another hour of instruction time. I have not even allotted time for them to physically move from place to another. Chances are each period is only 55 minutes in the best case scenario, which would blow another 30 minutes, so at best your kids are in school for 7 hours and get 4 and a half hours of instruction, and a third of that is not spent on Arithmetic or English. This is the controllable wasted time, we aren’t even counting stuff like behavior issues wasting time. The amount of time wasted is insane.
Now people want computers in the classroom so we can waste more time with computer issues. We want to do standardized test on computers for weeks in computer labs and waste more time. You just can’t keep adding non-essentially things to elementary schools and go the same amount of time without losing instruction time of your core subjects that build the foundation for a person’s ability to learn for the rest of their lives.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:19 am to cssamerican
You are right about all that...but Elementary school is basically daycare so their parents can work. Kids need to learn to read, write, do simple math, and learn to get along with others. Lots of recess, PE and a learning the essentials.
What makes great elementary schools different from shitty ones is the number of disruptive students and how easily schools can send those bad apples packing.
What makes great elementary schools different from shitty ones is the number of disruptive students and how easily schools can send those bad apples packing.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:53 am to Bamapossum
quote:
That $10,000 you speak of must go to fund the physical plant, technology, etc...
You take in 30 students at 6k a semester
2 semesters, thats 360k
What? Lets do some math. You could lease a space in a strip mall for say 2k a month, internet, utilities and such puts you at $2500/mth
30k for facility and utilities
A nice nice refurbished mac computer for each student ~1.5k apple.com
45k on computers.
This puts us at 75k
Teaching material(books, software, etc) well say 1k per student
Were at 105k in expenses
You may need some help teaching certain subjects so you hire 3 part time teachers and generously pay them 30k once you add up their total time working throughout the year.
195k in expenses
Lets say accounting/paperwork/marketing/legal/insurance etc is another 60k per year
255k in expenses
....assuming you keep the 8-3 schedule(which you could easily cut out fluff and do less hours) you have a couple of more hours you want to be making money so you open up your school for one on one tutoring once your schoolday is done.
You charge $50/hour and have a few contract tutors that get you $20/hr. Depending how much you want to do that...its an additional 20-40k in income
That puts you in the black at ~130k
Schools can easily be profitable. You have a product that literally everyone must use. Teachers however are just super comfortable in their situations where they can do a subpar job...or a great job. Doesnt matter..they still get paid, never get fired, always have normal hours, always get summers off.
Id prefer my kids to get educated by someone who had incentive to provide a great educational product.
This post was edited on 5/21/18 at 7:55 am
Posted on 5/21/18 at 7:59 am to bamafan1001
This sounds too expensive and too open for shenanigans.
Abolish La State Tax
Increase Property Tax
Create ISD's.
Let the communities surrounding each school pay for it.
(Texas Model)
This also keeps out the riff-raff and improves the community by essentially beginning to know your neighbors again.
Abolish La State Tax
Increase Property Tax
Create ISD's.
Let the communities surrounding each school pay for it.
(Texas Model)
This also keeps out the riff-raff and improves the community by essentially beginning to know your neighbors again.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:03 am to bamafan1001
Less standardized testing and more experiences. Take these kids on more field trips!
Posted on 5/21/18 at 8:13 am to bamafan1001
Transition public education to an online model. Cut costs dramatically, eliminate safety concerns.
Posted on 5/21/18 at 9:24 am to bamafan1001
We are presently spending well over $10000 per student in just about all districts.
$10000 vouchers would cause a rush to start new schools like we have never scene.
It is AMAZING how naive and fearful most teachers are. Most lack the business acclimate to run a lemonade stand but there are enough out there with ambition and with math skills and leadership skills to successfully start and run new schools.
Some would be perfect content to teach 5 or 10 kids at their house and that would be fine with me.
$10000 vouchers would cause a rush to start new schools like we have never scene.
It is AMAZING how naive and fearful most teachers are. Most lack the business acclimate to run a lemonade stand but there are enough out there with ambition and with math skills and leadership skills to successfully start and run new schools.
Some would be perfect content to teach 5 or 10 kids at their house and that would be fine with me.
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