re: Nancy and Dems keep repeating open the government

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Why is opening the govt necessary in order to start a negotiation?

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I'll take a stab at this...

I believe that the government isn't supposed to work this way. There should be give and take. So the president, as according to his role outlined in the Constitution, "shall from time to time...recommend to [Congress'] Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient" sees a problem with border security and is making a recommendation for Congress to consider a wall.. Only he's not making a recommendation, he's making a demand, and he's holding the government hostage over it.

The Congress, while agreeing that there is a border security issue, believes that their are other ways to address the issue besides a wall, and is will to negotiate other ways to address the problem. The president refuses to consider any option that doesn't include a wall, so he stonewalls until the government runs out of funding for certain activities.

Apparently the president believes that the Congress is required to accept any demand under threat of extortion. The Congress disagrees. Now we find ourselves in the middle of a power play where the power is equal on both sides. This is explicitly by the design of our founding fathers so that power is not mostly in one branch or another.

So now the speaker finds herself in the position of having to educate the president on the balance of power, and he cannot simply extort the Congress to meet his demands. I do not care for Pelosi, but I appreciate her position here. She cannot simply give up the power vested in her by the Constitution due to threats. The two branches must find a way to work together on a solution.

In order to find a solution, regular order must be restored )that is to say, government must be functioning normally), then negotiations can begin.

The problem: Border security.

The solution: Increased border security.

There are many ways to increase border security without having to construct an actual wall, as has been demonstrated in the previous two administrations, the effects of which are indicated on the following graph:



Negotiations should include an examinations of the methods employed since 2005, none of which included a wall. The president will be free to negotiate what methods to be used, however some methods may not be acceptable to Congress, while some may not be acceptable to the president. This is actual negotiation.

But in short, the speaker sees holding the government re-opening as a negotiating tactic tantamount to extortion. I see her point.

Sorry if it's a little disjointed, I've been having to go back and forth from this to actual work.

Public perception is that Dems refuse to do their job and are 100% responsible for the shut down.

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We've made great strides since 2005 without a wall

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you mean, tinkering with definitions and methods of counting?

If we legalized murder tomorrow, you know what would happed to the homicide rate?

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Sorry if it's a little disjointed, I've been having to go back and forth from this to actual work.

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You didn't answer the question. Why cannot all of that shite you wrote happen while the govt is partially shut?
The 'give and take' can happen during the shut down.

Your partner here, Cole Beer, says the wall is impossible because the Dems will never allow it. I asked him 'Why?" He still won't answer.

Why won't you allow it? Go ahead and say it:

a. We oppose anything by Trump.
b. We want open borders.

Any other answer is a total lie which is what you guys do. That's why we don't trust you by opening the govt first. Understand?

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The wall, we will never negotiate on. Now if you want to negotiate about border security without a wall, we can talk.

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You guys make me laugh. I don't understand why Trump won't just accept their deal and re-open the government. Then if your Don, you spin it: A. Look at what a great deal maker I am B. Under my leadership we just made the border very secure, more secure than ever! C. Whatever other stuff he says all the time that he claims is true, but clearly is not

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You do not reward a child with what they want after that child has thrown a temper tantrum. When that child's behavior is appropriate (as the parent defines it) then a reward is possible. Same principle applies to this stalemate.

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Because you shouldn't negotiate under threat of extortion.

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That's moronic. Negotiation = threats of extortion on each side. That's leverage. The Dems want Trump to give up leverage in return for :

ZERO!!!

The Dems NEVER keep their promises. They are liars by nature. They have been for all of my life. That's why the press has no credibility. It's an occupation infested by natural born liars. It's your default system.

I don't care if the govt ever opens. At least your brother Cole Beer told the truth. The Dems will NEVER negotiate for a wall. NEVER.
Now, answer the question. Why not? Open borders? Just say it.

Being reported right now. Lindsey Graham said he just spoke with Trump, told him they are talking about a three-week CR to open government.

The "win" for the left is to deny Trump a wall.

They have no agenda. Want nothing else. That's why they refuse to negotiate or counter.