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re: Much Needed Clarity Regarding the Pope and the Recent Document Regarding Blessings

Posted on 1/3/24 at 2:51 pm to
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
62486 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

The Eucharist is some sort of Voodoo magic


Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53647 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

The Eucharist is some sort of Voodoo magic where you claim to actually transform a piece of bread into Jesus' body and a cup of wine (or grape juice in our case) into literally the blood of Jesus. But that just simply cannot and does not happen. It is a representation of and done in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice for us by dying on the cross. So nobody is denying Jesus.


Not only are you calling Jesus Christ a liar, but, your position is antithetical to the beliefs of everybody in the Early Church. Your view was invented by a man more than Fifteen Centuries after Christ Ascended to Heaven.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

sure that is clearly being symoblic, but it is an error to say the same thing of John 6.


If Catholics really believe that they have to literally eat Jesus’ flesh and drink his blood, why don’t all Catholics drink from the cup every Mass?
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53647 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

If Catholics really believe that they have to literally eat Jesus’ flesh and drink his blood, why don’t all Catholics drink from the cup every Mass?


Did Jesus Christ leave a schedule somewhere for us to follow on this issue?

Do you really think that this is some sort of "Gotcha"?

This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 3:02 pm
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Not only are you calling Jesus Christ a liar, but, your position is antithetical to the beliefs of everybody in the Early Church. Your view was invented by a man more than Fifteen Centuries after Christ Ascended to Heaven.


When Jesus called himself a rock or a door, if a believer things Jesus wasn’t a literal rock or door, does this too make him a Jesus denier??
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

Do you really think that this is some sort of "Gotcha"?


I think if it’s important to eat his flesh, surely it’s equally important to drink his blood. But Catholics only make eating his flesh a priority and skip his blood.
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
13780 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

Not only are you calling Jesus Christ a liar


How? You are taking His words literally... we are taking them figuratively...I am in no way calling Jesus a liar, Jesus is incapable of lying. I am, however, calling y'all wrong on this point.

You call me wrong, I call you wrong. See how that works? You quite literally think you are eating a tiny piece of the flesh of Jesus body and quite literally think you are drinking his blood.

We, however (and correctly) see communion as a representation of His flesh and blood. Communion is done so that we never forget Jesus sacrifice on the cross and exactly what he sacrificed for our sins.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

edit from the Catechism: 1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.



This here is a microcosm of whats wrong with the RCC. Write some unintelligible paragraphs cloaked in mysticism to explain a theology that is simple. This is done for a reason. They hope the abundance of words and the language most laity can’t understand will give it some form of gravitas and no one will question its mumbo jumbo.
It’s nothing but Gobbledygook
This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 3:24 pm
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53647 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

think if it’s important to eat his flesh, surely it’s equally important to drink his blood. But Catholics only make eating his flesh a priority and skip his blood.


You *think*. Once again, Revelator is writing his own theology - making it up as he goes along.

I can't speak for every Catholic, but, I partake in the Body and Blood at every Mass.

Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

I can't speak for every Catholic, but, I partake in the Body and Blood at every Mass.


You know darn well that most of the laity isn’t drinking from the cup in most Masses
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59615 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 4:29 pm to
to be honest I should have posted a few paragraphs before, because the text and context help it make more sense.

LINK

I won't quote the entire section here, but if you are willing go read numbers 1362-1372.

To put it simply. The jewish people when they celebrated the passover were not just remembering the events but in a miraculous way the passover is made present to them. We say the same thing for the Eucharist. Somehow God makes present the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, present on the altar.

This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 4:37 pm
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59615 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

You know darn well that most of the laity isn’t drinking from the cup in most Masses



The Church teaches that Jesus is fully present in both the bread and the wine. Someone isn't receiving a part of Jesus when they receive the bread, and another part of Jesus when they receive the wine. Instead the church recommends (doesn't require) both kinds because it is a fuller sign of the lord's supper.

This is evidenced by what the majority of the church did during the pandemic. If you had to receive both to fully receive Jesus we wouldn't have taken away the wine. But we did to protect people from the spread of the virus.

from the USCCB.

quote:

12. Does one receive the whole Christ if one receives Holy Communion under a single form?
Yes. Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior, is wholly present under the appearance either of bread or of wine in the Eucharist. Furthermore, Christ is wholly present in any fragment of the consecrated Host or in any drop of the Precious Blood. Nevertheless, it is especially fitting to receive Christ in both forms during the celebration of the Eucharist. This allows the Eucharist to appear more perfectly as a banquet, a banquet that is a foretaste of the banquet that will be celebrated with Christ at the end of time when the Kingdom of God is established in its fullness (cf. Eucharisticum Mysterium, no. 32).


LINK
Posted by CatholicLSUDude
Member since Aug 2018
1033 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 5:13 pm to
quote:

This here is a microcosm of whats wrong with the RCC. Write some unintelligible paragraphs cloaked in mysticism to explain a theology that is simple. This is done for a reason. They hope the abundance of words and the language most laity can’t understand will give it some form of gravitas and no one will question its mumbo jumbo.
It’s nothing but Gobbledygook


Man, I thought we were getting somewhere. You're doing the thing you've done several times where you assign malicious intent to the Church instead of arguing with the Church's stated position. It comes across as a petty jab rather than an argument made in good faith and undermines your position.

Also, just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true. Any attempt to explain sola scriptura and all the objections to it would be infinitely more goobledygook-ish than this excerpt from the Catechism.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 5:19 pm to
quote:

The Church teaches that Jesus is fully present in both the bread and the wine. Someone isn't receiving a part of Jesus when they receive the bread, and another part of Jesus when they receive the wine


That’s very typical . Y’all are a stickler for rules and Jesus said eat the body and drink the blood, but again, when it isn’t feasible, the RCC invents another out to circumvent this inconvenience. Y’all sure do pick and choose when to adhere to Jesus’ commands
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59615 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

That’s very typical . Y’all are a stickler for rules and Jesus said eat the body and drink the blood, but again, when it isn’t feasible, the RCC invents another out to circumvent this inconvenience. Y’all sure do pick and choose when to adhere to Jesus’ commands



hmmm, I've never heard this objection before. So I need to think over it.

But as I understand it, the priest who celebrates the mass must receive under both kinds. He is fulfilling the command by Christ.

But I would assume that we are still fulfilling his command to receive both his body and blood, as we teach he is present fully body and blood in both species.

edit: I can claim the same thing for you. Jesus told us to eat his flesh and drink his blood, but you only receive bread and wine if you receive it at all.

You argument that catholics should always receive both species is interesting, but your argument that because we don't we are just creating loopholes isn't and getting kinda old.
This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 5:42 pm
Posted by DVA Tailgater
Bunkie
Member since Jan 2011
3424 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 8:14 pm to
quote:

Question... In your opinion as a Catholic, am I, as a Southern Baptist who has accepted the Lord as my personal savior and, as an outward expression of my Faith, been baptized and who tries, to the best of my ability and with the Lord's help, live a Godly life and repents of my sins daily... going to heaven? As in... would y'all consider me to be saved? Does it not all boil down to that one simple question?


Yes.

Eta: but ultimately, it’s God’s call. I choose to believe that the God I believe in would let you in.
This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 8:26 pm
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53647 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 8:56 pm to
quote:

Question...

In your opinion as a Catholic, am I, as a Southern Baptist who has accepted the Lord as my personal savior and, as an outward expression of my Faith, been baptized and who tries, to the best of my ability and with the Lord's help, live a Godly life and repents of my sins daily... going to heaven? As in... would y'all consider me to be saved?

Does it not all boil down to that one simple question?


Here's a great article on how the process of Salvation works under the Catechism. It's simple.

LINK

"So that’s what you need to do. To come to God and be saved, you need to repent, have faith, and be baptized. If you commit mortal sin, you need to repent, have faith, and go to confession."
This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 8:59 pm
Posted by GreenRockTiger
vortex to the whirlpool of despair
Member since Jun 2020
58775 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 8:57 pm to
quote:

But that just simply cannot and does not happen
yes it does - anything is possible with God
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
13780 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 9:01 pm to
quote:

yes it does - anything is possible with God


You are quite correct... With God, all things are possible.

Perhaps I should've just said that does not happen. Because it doesn't, no matter that Catholics say and believe otherwise.
Posted by MemphisGuy
Germantown, TN
Member since Nov 2023
13780 posts
Posted on 1/3/24 at 9:02 pm to
quote:

go to confession


Why can I not simply confess my sin to God and if I've sinned against another person (lied to them etc) confess to them? Why must I "go to confession"?

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It doesn't say "If we confess our sins to a priest", it simply says "If we confess our sins".
This post was edited on 1/3/24 at 9:05 pm
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