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Started By
Message
re: Mississippi wins right to enforce religious exemptions law
Posted on 6/22/17 at 1:59 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 6/22/17 at 1:59 pm to FooManChoo
quote:1. no, sorry, you dont just get to retroactively claim ownership over something.
According to Christians, their belief is that marriage was instituted by God at the creation, which predates all formal religions. It's not the timeline (of the religion) that matters in Christianity but the institution and where it came from (God).
2. as i said before...
...we don't make laws in this country based on religious beliefs, and if anyone can give an explanation for why "marriage is the union of one man and one woman" that doesn't come down to "because the bible says so", then Id be fascinated to hear it.
youre doing the opposite.
3
Posted on 6/22/17 at 1:59 pm to kilo
quote:
This a terrible comparison.
How so? Both are explicitly outlined in HB 1523.
I'm Catholic, and same sex marriage and premarital sex are both prohibited. Refusing to serve someone in a same sex wedding under the guise of religious freedom seems hypocritical unless I also refuse to serve someone having premarital sex, no?
This post was edited on 6/22/17 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 6/22/17 at 1:59 pm to Salmon
From a conscientious objector case:
quote:
Held:
1. The test of religious belief within the meaning of the exemption in § 6(j) is whether it is a sincere and meaningful belief occupying in the life of its possessor a place parallel to that filled by the God of those admittedly qualified for the exemption. Pp. 380 U. S. 173-180.
quote:
2. Local boards and courts are to decide whether the objector's beliefs are sincerely held and whether they are, in his own scheme of things, religious; they are not to require proof of the religious
Page 380 U. S. 164
doctrines, nor are they to reject beliefs because they are not comprehensible. Pp. 380 U. S. 184-185.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:00 pm to MastrShake
quote:That's not what's going on. You're misunderstanding the law.
...we don't make laws in this country based on religious beliefs, and if anyone can give an explanation for why "marriage is the union of one man and one woman" that doesn't come down to "because the bible says so", then Id be fascinated to hear it.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:01 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Local boards and courts are to decide whether the objector's beliefs are sincerely held and whether they are, in his own scheme of things, religious; they are not to require proof of the religious
Page 380 U. S. 164
doctrines, nor are they to reject beliefs because they are not comprehensible
interesting
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:01 pm to AlxTgr
quote:its literally mandating that everyone who wants to get married needs to believe it.
It's protecting the belief. It's not mandating that anyone believe it.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:02 pm to anc
quote:
Honestly, who cares if a small town pharmacy cashier decides that she won't sell condoms to a 15 year old besides the 15 year old?
So she would rather the 15 year old have unprotected sex and a possible unwanted pregnancy? We all know that by not selling the 15 year old condoms they won't have sex. FFS!
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
And, since this is an opt-out specific to religious organizations,
It isn't specific to religious organizations though. A photographer can refuse service under the law as well.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:03 pm to slackster
quote:
How so?
Because a same sex couple walks in to buy a cake, its clear that is a gay marriage. A business like a baker doesn't have a questionnaire about ones sexual history along with the list of other sins.
Just because he doesn't ask doesn't mean he "doesn't give a frick"
It's a terrible comparison.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:05 pm to slackster
quote:
A photographer can refuse service under the law as well.
Good, they should be able to.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:06 pm to MastrShake
quote:
the Mississippi bill seeks to protect by law the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.
It was Obama's belief in 2008.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:07 pm to MastrShake
quote:
its literally mandating that everyone who wants to get married needs to believe it.
You literally don't know what you're talking about....and I used that word correctly.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:07 pm to kilo
quote:
Because a same sex couple walks in to buy a cake, its clear that is a gay marriage. A business like a baker doesn't have a questionnaire about ones sexual history along with the list of other sins.
Just because he doesn't ask doesn't mean he "doesn't give a frick"
Fair enough, but I think we can agree that the likelihood an engaged couple is abstaining is incredibly small.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:07 pm to MrLarson
quote:
They are just getting out in front of churches being forced to marry them.
quote:
marriage is the union of one man and one woman and prevents government intervention when churches or businesses act "based upon or in a manner consistent with a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction."
Why did they have the word "businesses" in there then?
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:07 pm to MastrShake
quote:
its literally mandating that everyone who wants to get married needs to believe it.
It's literally not.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:07 pm to MastrShake
quote:You are completely wrong.
its literally mandating that everyone who wants to get married needs to believe it.
The bill says:
quote:
The sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions protected by this act are the belief or conviction that:
(a) Marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman;
(b) Sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage; and
(c) Male (man) or female (woman) refer to an individual's immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy and genetics at time of birth.
It protects people who have these beliefs from:
quote:
SECTION 3. (1) The state government shall not take any discriminatory action against a religious organization wholly or partially on the basis that such organization:
Did you even read it?
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:09 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Why did they have the word "businesses" in there then?
I'm guessing they are trying to avoid the travesty of bakers getting sued to bake cakes.
Who knew Mississippi would be the leader of freedom? WTG Mississippi
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:10 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
The sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions protected by this act are the belief or conviction that:
(a) Marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman;
(b) Sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage; and
(c) Male (man) or female (woman) refer to an individual's immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy and genetics at time of birth.
If this stands, does it open the door for other "sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions?"
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:11 pm to anc
quote:
Honestly, who cares if a small town pharmacy cashier decides that she won't sell condoms to a 15 year old besides the 15 year old?
Me, the taxpayer, when I have to pay for that 15 year old's kid.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 2:11 pm to slackster
quote:
If this stands, does it open the door for other "sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions?"
it should, but this is MS, so good luck
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