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Started By
Message
re: Military folks, thoughts on good guy with a gun
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:14 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:14 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:\
I saw an article about this on the firarms blog. The author estimated that only 10% of people with firearms licenses were competent to carry them; familiar the law, the rules of engagement, and proficient with their fire arms.
So. If 10 people present are armed when an active shooter starts, 1 of them is going to have an OK shot and deterring additional deaths?
OK.
I like those odds. I was assuming much worse. And STILL viewed the OP as a complete non point.
0
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:17 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
I'd think if the shooters attention isn't directed at you you would have the advantage and should make a move.
I thought this for a long time also.
But to offer a counterpoint: If you decide to get involved you are putting the needs of the strangers around you above your family, in that you are risking your life and limb to help people you don't know and might never come home to your people again. Are you as a permit holder comfortable doing that? You have obligations to your family which far outweigh obligations to strangers.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:17 pm to ShortyRob
quote:And for every one of those real active shooter situations there are 5 situations where everyone panics over nothing?
It's a non-point.
If an active shooter, un-deterred would kill 100 people in a given situation and the average joe fails 99 times out of 100 but in the 100th situation, the active shooter only gets to kill 50, that's a win.
I mean, cause, ya know. The active shooter is gonna keep shooting until stopped.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:18 pm to ShortyRob
quote:In how many of those hundred times does your average Joe hit another civilian unintentionally?
If an active shooter, un-deterred would kill 100 people in a given situation and the average joe fails 99 times out of 100 but in the 100th situation, the active shooter only gets to kill 50, that's a win.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:19 pm to Machine
Probably close to zero
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:19 pm to mmcgrath
quote:I'm pretty sure the very definition of "active shooter" is someone ACTIVELY shooting so, I don't really know what you mean here.
And for every one of those real active shooter situations there are 5 situations where everyone panics over nothing?
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:20 pm to Machine
Some of the perps you hear about have no idea how to clear a stoppage in an AK-47. They are complete novices. That seems to have been true of the shooters at the Texas Mohamed art show, the shooter on the Belgian train, and the Paris shooters. The Batman shooter had a stoppage on the AR-15 he had. As I recall he fitted a drum to it. When that jammed he just put it down and surrendered.
So there is that. Especially in Europe they are not going to be familiar with fire arms.
So there is that. Especially in Europe they are not going to be familiar with fire arms.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:20 pm to Machine
quote:
In how many of those hundred times does your average Joe hit another civilian unintentionally?
Is this rhetorical, or do you actually want to learn more about the topic?
The NRA publishes articles about 'good guys' with guns every month in the 'Armed Citizen.'
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:21 pm to weagle99
quote:
If you decide to get involved you are putting the needs of the strangers around you above your family, in that you are risking your life and limb to help people you don't know and might never come home to your people again
This is true. I guess you'd never really know until put in the situation.
But at the same time the OP does mention military folk, and isn't what you just described a situation they have already accepted on some level?
This post was edited on 6/4/17 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:22 pm to Clames
quote:
Probably close to zero
oh okay. I think I read that study from the pull it out your arse institute
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:22 pm to Machine
quote:
In how many of those hundred times does your average Joe hit another civilian unintentionally?
And?
The active shooter will NOT be stopping. So, I really don't know what your point is.
If no one shoots back, he will continue shooting.
You response, like EVERY time this silliness comes up, seems to completely forget this.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:24 pm to Machine
Cops often shoot each other by accident. It is going to happen.
If you did drop a perp having perfectly analyzed the situation and properly appled deadly force you still have to survive the arrival of the police They may shoot you on sight.
If you did drop a perp having perfectly analyzed the situation and properly appled deadly force you still have to survive the arrival of the police They may shoot you on sight.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:26 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
But at the same time the OP does mention military folk, and isn't what you just described in a way a situation they have already accepted?
Maybe if they are active LEO or Military. I'm just a private citizen.
I actually think if I had an out in a shooting situation I am taking it. That might sound cowardly to some I guess. I'm not trying to protect the world, just me and mine.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:31 pm to weagle99
quote:I agree completely, and think most people would. Only a crazy person is looking for a gun fight when an out is given
I actually think if I had an out in a shooting situation I am taking it. That might sound cowardly to some I guess. I'm not trying to protect the world, just me and mine.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:31 pm to weagle99
quote:
I actually think if I had an out in a shooting situation I am taking it. That might sound cowardly to some I guess. I'm not trying to protect the world, just me and mine.
I wouldn't call you a coward by any means, just saying I believe some people would and some people wouldn't. And it doesn't necessarily matter what you think you would do before hand, the opportunity will come and you would react.
There are many factors:
Are you with your family or single and with friends?
What do you judge the chance of success at that specific moment?
-for instance are you behind an active shooter unaware of you in a crowded area, or going to confront the active shooter head on with equal footing
Also any additional training or previous job that may have put you in similar situations would only give you increased confidence and increased chance of confronting the threat. Not a guarantee by any means though
This post was edited on 6/4/17 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:36 pm to Machine
I think I would be an asset in that situation because I am a really good shot and used to teach marksmanship with the m16.
The problem with me doing a CCL is that I rarely go anywhere where there are large crowds so I can't see the need to get it.
Terrorist would have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to target anywhere I go so I feel pretty safe not having it.
The problem with me doing a CCL is that I rarely go anywhere where there are large crowds so I can't see the need to get it.
Terrorist would have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to target anywhere I go so I feel pretty safe not having it.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:38 pm to Lsuchs
Yeah, it can be hard to predict if / when / what might happen.
If I am with family and friends and we are trapped, then yes it is time to fight.
If I solo in a gas station near the door and an armed robbery starts? I am gone.
And heaven help you if you ever somehow get involved in a situation and shoot and undercover cop. My lawyer basically said that 'you're done' if that happens.
If I am with family and friends and we are trapped, then yes it is time to fight.
If I solo in a gas station near the door and an armed robbery starts? I am gone.
And heaven help you if you ever somehow get involved in a situation and shoot and undercover cop. My lawyer basically said that 'you're done' if that happens.
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:39 pm to weagle99
quote:and Harvard university has published studies that it's a myth
Is this rhetorical, or do you actually want to learn more about the topic?
The NRA publishes articles about 'good guys' with guns every month in the 'Armed Citizen.'
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:39 pm to Machine
i don't have an opinion for the OP, but i just wanted to drop in and say thank you for your service to OUR country to all the servicemen and women (if there are any) that are in this thread...
i truly and honestly appreciate it and you deserve respect for at least that...
ETA Policemen and women, too... sorry i forgot about you guys, but thank you...
i truly and honestly appreciate it and you deserve respect for at least that...
ETA Policemen and women, too... sorry i forgot about you guys, but thank you...
This post was edited on 6/4/17 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 6/4/17 at 8:42 pm to Machine
My drill Sgt told me no trained man is as dangerous as one defending his home
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