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re: Michael Brown robbed store hours before his death ?
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:45 am to novabill
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:45 am to novabill
Spot on nova. If he did just commit a robbery and later met the officer that shot him, who was dispatched to the robbery. The cop is checking a person that meets a description. He cannot be sure until investigating further. Stopping them. If Brown did commit a robbery HE KNOWS IT FOR SURE. Now he is being confronted by LE. The cop is most likely reacting to the suspect till he knows for sure who he is dealing with. That is a huge disadvantage for the responding officer.
This post was edited on 8/15/14 at 11:45 am
1
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:45 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
There is none. That was the point.
How do you know?
quote:
There is none. One would expect if Brown were a robbery suspect, such a search would have been part of the narrative. That was the point.
How do you know?
quote:
I don't even know if Brown himself was involved.
Seems like its been established now.
quote:
d. Point being, if the shooting occurred d/t a cop's suspicion of involvement in a crime minutes before, both men would likely have been taken downtown. No?
I dont know. You are the one making a lot of assumptions without any citations what so ever.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:46 am to novabill
quote:No me.quote:Ok, I give you that.
I cannot beleive a few libs on this board cannot peice together the reason for the initial stop was the robbery.
Unless a city-wide police radio silence accounts for the Cop not calling it in to dispatch real time?
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:49 am to Jay Quest
quote:
The obvious answer, for me, is state of mind. If the officier belived he was engaging a possible suspect in an armed robbery his state of mind may well be different than if he was encountering some random kid.
I get that.
However, depending on what happened, whether the shooting occurred while they were struggling for the weapon, or if the kid had his hands up in surrender, the cops state of mind at the time of the stop is not relevant. The situation as it unfolded would have a greater impact on the state of mind.
If there was a struggle for the weapon that led to the shooting, the prior state of mind would be overridden by a desire to stay alive and the officer would be justified. If, however, the kid had surrendered and had his hands in the air, no prior actions (robbery or struggle) would be relevant because the cop would not be in danger while the kid had his hands up and was surrendering.
I do non know what happened on that street.
Everything I have talked about has been related to the cops reactions to possible scenarios.
If it is legal to shoot a fleeing suspect that is a suspect in the robbery, and that is what happened, then the robbery would be relevant and the cop would be justified. Otherwise, the cops state of mind when he initially encountered the kid, would have no bearing on the justification for the shooting, as the only justification would be that the cop would be in fear of losing his life. The kids size and trying to get the cops gun would be much more relevant to the cops state of mind than the previous robbery.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:50 am to Five0
quote:
Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)
In Garner, the Court held that if a suspect “threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given.”
Standing over the clerk and intimidating him seems to count as "threatened influction of serious physical harm."
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:51 am to kilo
quote:How do I know there was no radio call by the cop identifying Brown and pursuing him as a burglary suspect?
How do you know?
BECAUSE IF THERE WERE SUCH A CALL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED!
Got it?
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:51 am to graves1
quote:
The robbery issue matters, because it can help show the mindset of Brown. Not the officer. If Brown just committed a crime he may not want to go to jail for that crime. So his actions may have been aggressive. Which kind of follows the officers report.
That's as good a point as I've seen in this thread.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:51 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
nless a city-wide police radio silence accounts for the Cop not calling it in to dispatch real time?
What?
Are you talking about the "Ferguson Tapes"? If so you are a moron. That was St Louis County Dispatch, not Ferguson Police dispatch. A robbery in Ferguson will be on the Ferguson police radio net, not St Louis County.
If thats not what you are talking about then you need to explain yourself and or start providing links and citations to all the shite you are saying.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:52 am to graves1
quote:
So his actions may have been aggressive.
So, are you saying that the reason Brown was aggressive or the fact that he was aggressive is relevant.
I agree that the fact of him being aggressive would be a factor in the officers possibly being in fear for his life, but I do not think the reason for the aggression would be a factor.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:52 am to teke184
Trying to take the officer's gun Nova. That alone is enough. Combine that with the robbery and the danger to society is multiplied.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:53 am to kilo
quote:NSS.
A robbery in Ferguson will be on the Ferguson police radio net
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:53 am to kilo
quote:
Was there a struggle for the officers weapon? If that is proven to be true then that changes everything.
Of course. And Brown's previous actions would not change that. Going for the gun, would put the officer in jeopardy, not a previous robbery.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:54 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
How do I know there was no radio call by the cop identifying Brown and pursuing him as a burglary suspect?
BECAUSE IF THERE WERE SUCH A CALL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED!
Got it?
So you have nothing at all to back you up.
Thats what I did get.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:55 am to kilo
quote:Where is the tape of the call?
So you have nothing at all to back you up.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:55 am to BobBoucher
quote:
one of these makes no sense.
They certainly are vastly different accounts of the incident.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:57 am to novabill
So you are saying you don't want to understand. You agree and then you don't agree all in the same sentence.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:57 am to Five0
quote:
Five0
Do you agree that the relevant facts to the lethal shooting has to do with whether or not the officer had reason to feel he was in danger.
I did read the post stating that if the suspect was shot in the back while fleeing the cop would have legal justification for the shooting.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:57 am to udtiger
quote:
They certainly are vastly different accounts of the incident.
And only one of those accounts is continually changing as far as I can tell, which is the "eyewitness" account.
I put quotes around that because, if he was indeed the second robber with Brown, the reason he's lying and changing his story so much is to save his own arse.
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:57 am to novabill
quote:
Of course. And Brown's previous actions would not change that. Going for the gun, would put the officer in jeopardy, not a previous robbery.
It DOES change things man. A felony robbery suspect who tried to disarm a police officer was shot fleeing because the officer thought he was a further danger to the public if he was willing to go as afar as to disarm a police officer to get away.
It also affects the case like explained to you early but you just are not listening to the multitude of people that have tried explaining that to you because you feel like you are the smartest one in the thread.
This post was edited on 8/15/14 at 11:58 am
Posted on 8/15/14 at 11:58 am to novabill
TN v Garner puts the danger to society as the metric not the danger to an officer. Robbery is a crime against a person. People that engage in it are a danger to society.
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