- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Maxine Waters labels Ruby Ridge incident as "domestic terrorism"
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:02 am to magildachunks
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:02 am to magildachunks
quote:
Weaver was set up to be an informant,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But he still did the crime.
A very minor crime that didn't warrant the level of violence by the FBI
Someone went to prison for Ruby Ridge, and it wasn't a Weaver. Randy was sentenced for the original failure to appear and got a 3 million dollar judgement from the government.
1
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:02 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Cannot argue the point
You gotta remember, the friend who was with them was there to help fight off the government.
They were prepared for a fight.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:06 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
A very minor crime that didn't warrant the level of violence by the FBI
Doesn't negate the point.
And remember, the violence ratcheted up after a Marshal was killed.
However, even the locals and Marshals were shocked at the FBI's response.
Lead Marshal thought he might still be able to get Weaver to come out.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:07 am to magildachunks
quote:
Doesn't negate the point.
And remember, the violence ratcheted up after a Marshal was killed.
Why was the Marshal killed?
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:08 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
While that is not intended to be a universal and complete definition of terrorism, it is not 'nonsense.'
Bad things happen for the worst of reasons all the time. If there is a rapist/murderer operating in some suburb, certainly the people in that neighborhood feel threatened - but the nation does not consider it to be 'terrorism.' To do so would dilute the meaning of terrorism as applied to the real thing - like 9/11.
The very goal of terrorism is to make a whole people change their way of life. You can influence a local community to take better care of locking their doors until the local rapist/murderer is apprehended, but that doesn't even register in the thoughts of people in Detroit or Amarillo.
However, when some crackpot in San Diego shoots up a party while yelling 'aloha snackbar' then people all over the nation consider = 'how do i protect myself from this shite?'
That is all I meant with my fly-by quote. If you really think it is nonsense, then I pity your mental density. If you are just nit-picking because it is not a complete treatise on terrorism, then you disgust me as a waste of space and oxygen.
You are completely wrong. Words have meanings and terrorism is defined as "using violence or threats of violence to further a political agenda" if ALL points aren't meant, it isn't terrorism.
ALL violence, obviously, creates some amount of terror , but without a political agenda there is no terrorism.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:11 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Why was the Marshal killed?
He was killed because of stupid interagency shite.
They were told to go serve a warrant, and that they needed to do some scouting before attempting to do so.
FBI never told them he was anti-government and had threatened violence if anybody came on his land.
They walked into a shitshow and the end result changed a ton of policies within the FBI.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:13 am to magildachunks
quote:
Why was the Marshal killed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was killed because of stupid interagency shite.
He was killed because they shot the dog.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He was killed because they shot the dog.
So we can shoot cops for killing our dogs now?
ETA: I also think it's important to point out that the Weavers were not white supremacists. They were religious nuts preparing for what they perceived as the end of days.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 11:17 am
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:17 am to magildachunks
quote:
So we can shoot cops for killing our dogs now?
You can get shot for opening fire, yep.
Don't play stupid games, don't get stupid prizes.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:57 am to magildachunks
quote:
Lawyer didn't show up after telling me I didn't have to because of work.
Five years later I go in front of a judge with no knowledge of even having a bench warrant.
That's screwed up.
Sort of like what happened to my wife 20 or so years ago. I was out of town on a business trip and the dog got out. My wife had become very sick and barely able to get out of bed. The dog catcher came along and rang the doorbell. Wife told him she was too sick to get out and chase the dog, so she closed the door and went back to bed. Dog catcher got pissed because he could not catch the dog either - so he came back to the door and rang the bell. Wife was too sick to get out of bed again. So he wrote her 3 tickets, but could not give them to her. Some months later on a Saturday morning, my wife began to scream from the entry foyer. I jumped out of bed and rushed to see three men putting handcuffs on my wife. - turns out she didn't show up at the date prescribed on the 3 citations which we did not know about. Then, they wrote 3 more tickets for "failure to appear" - one for each citation.
That made six outstanding warrants and called for immediate arrest and straight to jail. Took me all day to unravel all the mess and pay the fines and get her out of there.
Moral = don't go out of town without securing your dog in the back yard.
eta - I have sometimes wondered what may have happened had I had my .357 at my bedside when my wife started yelling "HELP!!!!" She didn't know what was happening, and all I saw when I entered the scene was 3 men 'attacking' my wife - it was a moment before I saw the handcuffs and the badges. They made no comment until after I had taken in the original scene because they didn't know I was about to emerge on the scene. Had I had a weapon in my hand, it could have gotten ugly in a hurry, even if it had taken a moment for me to realize they were LEO's they could have seen the gun and taken defensive action.
Keep those dogs penned up folks.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 9/11/17 at 12:06 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
You are completely wrong. Words have meanings and terrorism is defined as "using violence or threats of violence to further a political agenda" if ALL points aren't meant, it isn't terrorism.
No - I am not completely wrong.
The OP is
quote:
Maxine Waters labels Ruby Ridge incident as "domestic terrorism"
There was nothing about what Weaver did at Ruby Ridge that would meet your own definition
quote:
Words have meanings and terrorism is defined as "using violence or threats of violence to further a political agenda" if ALL points aren't meant, it isn't terrorism.
You are nit-picking an off-the-cuff remark because it is not a complete legal definition of a complicated issue.
You win nothing - It was not my intent to attempt a complete and enduring definition of such a complex subject. I was offering a short retort to another person who was making an illogical statement.
So sue me - see you in court
Posted on 9/11/17 at 12:52 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Doesn't negate the point.
And remember, the violence ratcheted up after a Marshal was killed.
However, even the locals and Marshals were shocked at the FBI's response.
Lead Marshal thought he might still be able to get Weaver to come out.
You don't know what you are talking about. The Marshalls just came off of botching the shite out of "The Order" case in Washington and went in too heavy on Weaver thinking the situations were similar. There were six armed us Marshalls stalking the woods around Weavers home for a week -- all because he failed to appear in court. They shot his dog and his 14 year old son that day, and while the stories differ, we know the Marshalls shot first.
Weaver might have been racist, but he wasn't violent or militant. He just wanted to be left alone.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 12:53 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
He just wanted to be left alone.
I'm sure everybody facing criminal charges just wants the courts to leave them alone.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:00 pm to magildachunks
Except according to Weaver, he never committed a crime.
quote:
At the 1986 World Congress, a biker named Gus Magisono befriended Randy Weaver. In actuality, Magisono was undercover ATF informant Kenneth Faderley. Gus asked Randy to sell him some sawed-off shotguns. Initially, Randy refused, arguing that he could not afford to purchase the shotguns, but Magisono persisted. Magisono eventually agreed to provide the shotguns, along with instructions regarding the length he wanted. Magisono then purchased the guns back from Weaver, ensuring that Weaver had violated federal weapons laws. According to Magisono, the guns were sawed off 3/8th inch shorter than the legal minimum. Weaver denies cutting the barrels to below the legal length, insisting that Magisono further shortened the barrels to below the minimum legal overall length of 18 inches after purchase to create a violation. An Idaho jury later agreed that this was a form of entrapment
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:07 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Except according to Weaver, he never committed a crime.
Then he should have gone to court.
Innocent or not, missing court is a crime.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:08 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Except according to Weaver, he never committed a crime.
This is close to my decades old memory.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:21 pm to Roaad
quote:
After they murder your 14 year old son?
Your order is incorrect. He had already barricaded himself (& his wife & kids) in & decided to never surrender before his son was shot. If he's not the paranoid ZOG hater he simply makes copies of the original warrant with the wrong date.
Instead he took it as proof that ZOG was out to get him. Can't see why a judge doesn't immediately throw out the Failure to appear charges.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:22 pm to magildachunks
quote:
Then he should have gone to court.
Innocent or not, missing court is a crime.
How does any of that justify the feds setting up an army camp and crawling around in the woods for a week before wasting his dog, his child, and blowing his unarmed wife's face off with sniper fire while she was cradling the baby in her arms? Whatever happened to knocking on the door with a subpoena?
Are you suggesting he got what he deserved?
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:25 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Except according to Weaver, he never committed a crime.
EVERY person accused says that, that's why we have a judicial system.
And at minimum he failed to appear , and THAT is what brought on the summons and that is what began the whole mess. Are you suggesting that when people fail to appear the government should just say "well guess they think they are innocent so that's that?"
Posted on 9/11/17 at 1:30 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
So it's all his fault because he should have anticipated having nearly his entire family slaughtered by a small army for missing a court date?
I'll add you to the retard list.
ETA:
Not every person has a jury rule that they were entrapped. Not every person gets a 3 million dollar ruling either.
I'll add you to the retard list.
ETA:
quote:
EVERY person accused says that, that's why we have a judicial system.
Not every person has a jury rule that they were entrapped. Not every person gets a 3 million dollar ruling either.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 1:34 pm
Page 7 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News