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re: Marjorie Taylor Greene mocked for suggesting solar and wind energy don’t work at night
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:40 am to Flats
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:40 am to Flats
MTG represents a region in Georgia that is loaded with hydro-electric plants. Despite pop culture, hydro is highly efficient "renewable energy" that produces lots of clean energy AT NIGHT (or any time of day)
By comparison to hydro-electric, solar and wind energy is embarrassingly inefficient.
Additionally, Georgia has nuclear plants, with another state-of-the-art nuke plant recently coming on line. Then, a short distance away into South Carolina there is another nuke plant at Lake Keowee. MTG recognizes that energy production in her region is very well done.
BTW, don't give us any crap about hydro vs. fish habitat. This region of Georgia and South Carolina has outstanding lake, creek, stream and river habitat, great fishing and thriving wild life.
By comparison to hydro-electric, solar and wind energy is embarrassingly inefficient.
Additionally, Georgia has nuclear plants, with another state-of-the-art nuke plant recently coming on line. Then, a short distance away into South Carolina there is another nuke plant at Lake Keowee. MTG recognizes that energy production in her region is very well done.
BTW, don't give us any crap about hydro vs. fish habitat. This region of Georgia and South Carolina has outstanding lake, creek, stream and river habitat, great fishing and thriving wild life.
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Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:41 am to billjamin
quote:
Less than 10% failure rate and most of that was due to faulty installation. I've seen super typhoons hit islands with quality installers where zero modules were lost and that was on a flat roof with a pitched array and storms that make Ida look like a little bitch.
I saw them all over the ground in Lake Charles. My neighbor across the street lost 9 of his 16 panels. Then he couldn't get replacements for 2 months.
People that bitch about the big bad energy companies act like the solar companies are just in the game for unicorns and roses. You're just feeding a different set of greedy politicians/lobbyists.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:43 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Without grants, most people arent getting a sufficient cost/benefit from feeding an grid with residential panels.
This is true for some areas and not true for others. The vast majority of solar deployment only gets ITC and nothing else, yet they are still very much economical.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:46 am to MightyYat
quote:Flying modules is definitely and installation error. But it does happen. I've seen some that fly off that were reinstalled and worked fine, they're pretty resilient pieces (usually, just like cheap racking that fails, modules operate on the same spectrum)
I saw them all over the ground in Lake Charles. My neighbor across the street lost 9 of his 16 panels.
One of my buddies has an off-grid capable system in LC. The eye of Laura passed right over his house. It flipped his ground mount over, don't' ask me why he didn't have it permanently mounted in the ground. We used a tractor to flip it back over and it fired up and he ran with no power for weeks.
quote:100% accurate.
You're just feeding a different set of greedy politicians/lobbyists.
This post was edited on 8/16/22 at 11:48 am
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:46 am to MightyYat
quote:
saw them all over the ground in Lake Charles. My neighbor across the street lost 9 of his 16 panels. Then he couldn't get replacements for 2 months. People that bitch about the big bad energy companies act like the solar companies are just in the game for unicorns and roses. You're just feeding a different set of greedy politicians/lobbyists.
Don’t you talk like that to a guy that couldn’t figure out how to finance a multibillion dollar power gen project because some locals didn’t like it
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:46 am to MightyYat
or you have a situation where a hurricane damages the underlying roof and the homeowner doesnt want to foot the bill for reinstallation and repair just to save a few bucks on their energy bill every month. The panels save 10-30K over their life and cost 15-20K to put in.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:49 am to nugget
quote:
Don’t you talk like that to a guy that couldn’t figure out how to finance a multibillion dollar power gen project because some locals didn’t like it
Then go do it yourself. I don't make the final call, I'm on the engineering side and do the technical diligence.Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:52 am to billjamin
quote:
Flying modules is definitely and installation error. But it does happen. I've seen some that fly off that were reinstalled and worked fine, they're pretty resilient pieces (usually, just like cheap racking that fails, modules operate on the same spectrum)
But flying off is just one issue during a hurricane. Tree limbs damage them. Debris damages them. Hail can frick them up. Solar panels are sealed like a window right? How many hurricanes can they take?
I'm not opposed to other energy sources at all. We're just a looooong ways away from getting there.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:52 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
The panels save 10-30K over their life and cost 15-20K to put in.
Maybe, maybe not.
My $60k system will produce $100k+ in savings if I cut that at year 25, which is industry standard but operationally irrelevant.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:54 am to MightyYat
quote:
But flying off is just one issue during a hurricane. Tree limbs damage them. Debris damages them. Hail can frick them up. Solar panels are sealed like a window right? How many hurricanes can they take?
Normal modules are rated for high impact. Hale, flying debris damage, etc. is minimal. A fraction of a percent for any types of disaster. I've seen units in the Marianas that are 3 super typhoons in now and still rolling. You can even break them and they keep working.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:55 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Anyone who has energy infrastructure available is almost 100% not looking at an off-grid system.
I know three people pretty well who got solar panels and all three said they did it for the novelty as much as anything. They're all financially comfortable and even with the subsidies they looked at the ROI and it was a wash at best. Two live in hurricane country and liked the idea of solar panels vs a generator and the third just liked the idea of charging his Tesla with solar, although I'm not sure it actually delivers that kind of power.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:55 am to billjamin
you are trying to make your case on extremes though. You know good and well the average system cant sniff that. You also know the average Joe cant afford that. If they could, EVERYONE would be installing these systems, but barely anyone is. The market doesnt lie.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:55 am to billjamin
quote:
My $60k system will produce $100k+ in savings if I cut that at year 25, which is industry standard but operationally irrelevant.
Do you think you'll have zero maintenance, repairs/replacement in those 25 years? Zero failure of some component?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:56 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:My entire case is that it depends and people shouldn't rely on supposed averages they hear online. You can't state you'll spend X and save Y. It's highly variable.
you are trying to make your case on extremes though.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:57 am to MightyYat
Hes trying to make is case based on 60K Cadillac systems in ideal conditions and using data from 3rd world countries with giraffe-tonsil-high energy costs to back it up.
We are talking about domestic energy policy here and what the average American can afford.
We are talking about domestic energy policy here and what the average American can afford.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:57 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:My entire case is that it depends and people shouldn't rely on supposed averages they hear online. You can't state you'll spend X and save Y. It's highly variable.
you are trying to make your case on extremes though.
quote:
The market doesnt lie.
514,000 new customers in 2021 with a backlog of another couple hundred thousands waiting on materials doesn't lie.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:59 am to billjamin
quote:
514,000 new customers in 2021 with a backlog of another couple hundred thousands waiting on materials doesn't lie.
How many of those people are using state/federal/or other grants, tax credits, or other incentives to make it pencil out? Tell the truth.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 11:59 am to MightyYat
quote:
Do you think you'll have zero maintenance, repairs/replacement in those 25 years? Zero failure of some component?
Ask yourself, with everything I've posted in here. Do you think I understand the O&M cost, unit failures rates, degradation, etc.? And have I worked that into my ROA?
The answer is yes.
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:00 pm to billjamin
quote:
514,000 new customers in 2021 with a backlog of another couple hundred thousands waiting on materials doesn't lie.
With no subsidies?
Posted on 8/16/22 at 12:01 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
How many of those people are using state/federal/or other grants, tax credits, or other incentives to make it pencil out? Tell the truth.
Almost all get the ITC. The asset owner that is. Local, state, grants, etc. impact about 12% of deployment, RECS another 5%.
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