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re: MAGA’s Tariff idea…been wanting a “consumption tax” FOREVER

Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:54 pm to
Posted by oldskule
Down South
Member since Mar 2016
15981 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 1:54 pm to
At the end of the day, your a-hole buddies in DC are totally fricked up on EVERY issue, including taxes. The best way to make the economy strong....look at the Regan and TRUMP years, period!
But no, the liberals increase taxes on the people, rather than creating a business friendly market that produces wealth for all, at the same time, increases the tax base! Simply said, it works!
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
428211 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

I’d argue that government spending is way out of hand

You're correct.

The taxation system becomes irrelevant when faced with this issue.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
428211 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

It's basic math SFP.

More businesses opening, wages increase, etc...

I mean... How do those poor poor Chinese people afford that iPhone with those tariffs in place?!


Are you literally just throwing random words around without any logic, coherence, or relevance to the discussion?
Posted by BlackAdam
Member since Jan 2016
6510 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:21 pm to
It is weird to see liberals who advocate for higher corporate taxes decry tariffs because it will result in higher consumer prices.
Posted by Veritas
Raleigh, NC
Member since Feb 2005
6707 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

The rich will celebrate the lower tax rate The middle and lower classes will be upset at the higher tax rate


Can you speak in tax brackets? I have no clue what any of these groups mean anymore.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2033 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

quote:
It's basic math SFP.

More businesses opening, wages increase, etc...

I mean... How do those poor poor Chinese people afford that iPhone with those tariffs in place?!



Are you literally just throwing random words around without any logic, coherence, or relevance to the discussion?


Not at all. I'm pointing out your flawed argument.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
120633 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

The rich will celebrate the lower tax rate The middle and lower classes will be upset at the higher tax rate


Drug dealers, regulator tax evaders and lawyers will be pissed.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
428211 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

Can you speak in tax brackets? I have no clue what any of these groups mean anymore.


Just know that the top 25% pay 75% of the income tax.

They do not consume 75% of our retail GDP.

That difference will have to be made up by the bottom 75%
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
428211 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

I'm pointing out your flawed argument.

But you're not. You're not even addressing my argument or responding with anything related to the discussion at hand.

And you aren't even making an argument. You're trying to ask questions.
Posted by Veritas
Raleigh, NC
Member since Feb 2005
6707 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 2:39 pm to
So to date the top 25% has been carrying everyone?

Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2033 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

They do not consume 75% of our retail GDP.


How do you know that? Got a nice link you want to share?
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
22519 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

So to date the top 25% has been carrying everyone?


It’s probably more accurate to say they’re carrying the bottom 50% and the third quartile is carrying themselves.

SFP is getting downvoted because he likes being a dick, but the numbers are objectively what they are. If people don’t like reality being pointed out……..
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
22519 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

You do know that our whole system was set up to avoid concentrating 100% power Into 1 individual, don't you?


Sure, but that doesn’t mean he’s powerless.

Some people want to give Trump all the credit for policies they like and no blame for policies they don’t. It’s incoherent.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2033 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

But you're not. You're not even addressing my argument or responding with anything related to the discussion at hand.


I 100% did. This is the 3rd thread that you have entered with the same arguments that you run away from when flaws are pointed out.

The fact is, your are simply wrong. It's why you have no answers to your "imaginative story" on how this will never work.

We went through this last night. So here's your bullet points to help you:

1- Poor china with their tariffs.

You stated last night that Chinese could not afford iPhones. Do I need to quote you? Yet it is the top selling phone in all of China. One of your buddies claimed they were banned... and they clearly are not. You guys also stated the USA would nolonger have good tech because we could not afford it.

The conversation moved to this:

2- Well the iPhone is half the price.

It is not. the top model in the USA costs $1199. That same model in China costs $1109 (that is USD).

That moved to:

3- I'm talking about the base model!!!

And that turned out to not be true. It was not half the price. The base model cost in the USA $799. In China with the current deal to push even more sales... $636 USD. Not half priced at all.

That moved to

4- Well just because it's the top selling phone doesn't mean anything because numbers dude... numbers!

Top selling as in the most sold is just that. The most sold in China.

Moved to this:

5- That doesn't prove anything.

What it proves is what is being stated. That should the price be too high for Americans, the companies will lower the price due to a lack of demand and that another company in the USA will step in and fill the void.

I mean your whole friggin argument collapses with REALITY.


Oh yeah... before I forget...


6- They have cheap LABOR!!

Then how do they afford an iphone. BTW.. average pay is right at 30K Yuan. Care to tell us how much that is per YEAR in USD?


So again... explain how poor little ole China can have their tariffs and eat cake too?

Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2033 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

SFP is getting downvoted because he likes being a dick, but the numbers are objectively what they are. If people don’t like reality being pointed out……..


Nope. It's because he is wrong and puts out numbers that he feels is right.

Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
69853 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:24 pm to

It's a team sport with him and Congress, and even if he is the coach, he doesn't get to pick his players.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
22519 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

It's a team sport with him and Congress, and even if he is the coach, he doesn't get to pick his players.


So why does everybody talk about Trump’s tax cuts but blame Congress for spending bills?
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
13111 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Frankly this is a major issue I have with the consumption tax. I don’t want govco deciding what I should or shouldn’t buy and adjusting the tax accordingly….which you know they will do unless this is explicitly prohibited.

The gov already differentially taxes different items.
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
13111 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

Yeah, but in jurisdictions that use it as a companion to an income tax, not a replacement. If you want a replacement, you need to keep the base broad and exemptions/breaks low.

Valid concern but I'm not sure how it's different than what the IRS does. They impose different rules for different items giving different deductions and so forth. That said, you must have a broad base and rare exemptions, as you point out.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
2033 posts
Posted on 6/15/24 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

So why does everybody talk about Trump’s tax cuts


They get the credit for this. Who stated they didn't?

quote:

but blame Congress for spending bills?


That would be because of these:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

It does not say the president.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 2: Congressional Spending and Borrowing Power

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To borrow Money on the credit of the United States






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