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re: Lindsay Graham says the US has blocked the Pols from giving the Ukrainian’s some Migs.

Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:14 pm to
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21944 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

I could make the argument that 1) if Putin wants WWIII, he’ll find a way to get it, regardless, and 2) if NATO doesn’t show some backbone, Putin sees weakness and it may not end with Ukraine.

Appeasing tyranny never ends well. Not doing something because you’re afraid the bully will hit harder/escalate is appeasement. Putin is counting on that weakness from the west.

NATO should do everything they can to make Putin’s mission fail, short of sending troops and firing weapons

I'm not understanding how the person that wrote these first two lines is the same person that wrote the last one.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 2:16 pm
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

What would happen if the US committed to writing that Ukraine will never be a member of NATO?

would Putin believe it? No idea. Honestly I would try anything at this point. We give him that assurance and he leaves Ukraine permanently. That's what I would offer. I've read the various post pre-invasion that one country shouldn't be allowed to say who can join NATO and in the face of it, I agree. But if that one country has a leader willing to blow up everything then the calculus changes. You calm down a nutcase holding a live grenade you don't dare him to pull the pin.
In the past, appeasement was seen as weakness and it was re:chamberlain. But nukes forever changed the world. I'm constantly amazed that in my 56 years on earth there's never been a breech of MAD. I sincerely would try anything to see that continue
Posted by Goonie02
Member since Dec 2019
2797 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

And you wouldn’t show up at all. You probably ran to Canada during Vietnam. The new modern day woke military would be perfect for you.

I joined the US Army Infantry in 2009 right after high school. Deployed to Iraq for 12 months in 2009 to Bayji, Iraq with 1-187th Infantry Regiment 3rd Brigade from the 101st Airborne.
In 2011 my Brigade re-deployed to Paktika Province,Afghanistan for 15 months. I got out of the Army in 2012.

Unlike you I'm not big and tough on the internet. stay salty old man.
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

Appeasing tyranny never ends well. Not doing something because you’re afraid the bully will hit harder/escalate is appeasement. Putin is counting on that weakness from the west.

NATO should do everything they can to make Putin’s mission fail, short of sending troops and firing weapons
you should first reconcile these two opposing positions before you can offer a workable path forward
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18512 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

I'm not understanding how the person that wrote these first two lines is the same person that wrote the last one.



The first 2 paragraphs do not advocate war. They advocate doing everything you can just short of war, including arming Ukraine.
Posted by RollingwiththeTide
Member since Oct 2020
5936 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:25 pm to
Well the Japanese attacked us at Pearl because we had placed an oil embargo on them and we later added one or 2 other sanctions on them. They kept negotiating with us but pushed up the timetable to attack. The lesson we should learn is that it doesn’t always take a military action to get you into a war. If you are squeezing another country pretty hard with economic sanctions they just might attack you back using a military action and starting a world war.
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

Lindsay Graham needs to STFU
This guy shooting his mouth off certainly does nothing to defuse an increasingly dangerous global threat. But he's never been considered to be much more than a sideshow huckster best left ignored
Posted by ItTakesAThief
Scottsdale, Arizona
Member since Dec 2009
10348 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:27 pm to
What is the cost benefit of this?

They would likely be quickly destroyed by Russia either on the ground or in the air.

And would further escalate tensions
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

The first 2 paragraphs do not advocate war. They advocate doing everything you can just short of war, including arming Ukraine.


fair enough. But they left me with the impression that you favor direct NATO involvement in the Ukraine to confront the bully. If not then I stand corrected
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21944 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

The first 2 paragraphs do not advocate war. They advocate doing everything you can just short of war, including arming Ukraine.

Okay, but what if that's what Putin is counting on? I mean, that's weakness from his perspective, right?
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:30 pm to
quote:

If you are squeezing another country pretty hard with economic sanctions they just might attack you back using a military action and starting a world war.

the concept of "world war" changed forever in 1945
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 2:33 pm
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
69724 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:33 pm to
None of this shite is making sense anymore
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:36 pm to
I find it unfathomable that Putin is willing to take the world to the brink of annihilation over Ukraine but reading through Soviet history there were many who seriously considered first strike as a viable option during the cold War. Never underestimate the arrogance of our species nor its thirst for bloodshed
Posted by LSUBadger
Member since Jan 2014
2238 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:41 pm to
Attacking and holding Ukraine is going to destroy a huge percentage of the Russian military and hold down for occupation much of the rest. They are goi g to be in no position to invade anyone for some time
Posted by RollingwiththeTide
Member since Oct 2020
5936 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:43 pm to
And how do we know that in a couple of months that the Russian economy doesn’t totally collapse from all of these sanctions. Then the people over there take to the streets and the mob forms to overthrow Putin and his cronies running the government. Are you certain that Putin wouldn't launch every nuke he had just as a middle finger to both the people of Russia and the West? I could see him doing that. I most certainly could see Iran and the DPRK doing that if the people ever had an uprising and came for those leaders.
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

. They are goi g to be in no position to invade anyone for some time


Hopefully that is true. I watch documentaries about how England and France twiddled their thumbs over the Sudetenland, Austria and Czechoslovakia. How myopic could they have been not to see that Hitler would never be content without the whole of Western and Eastern Europe. But hindsight is 20/20 and today I have a new appreciation for their predicament
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
38819 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:47 pm to
Damn...just planted my sweet corn today...think I could get a blow up of this for the crows and coons.
Posted by Catchfalaya
Member since Feb 2018
2053 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:48 pm to
Goes to show how big of pussies the Biden Admin is. You give the Ukrainians every other lethal weaponry but not an Airplane? What are you afraid of you’ve already crossed that line. Give them MIG’s
Posted by JackieTreehorn
Member since Sep 2013
35131 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 3:01 pm to
Send Miss Lindsay and his pussy hat over there
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16657 posts
Posted on 3/5/22 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

Are you certain that Putin wouldn't launch every nuke he had just as a middle finger to both the people of Russia and the West?
absolutely not. But I'm still on the side of extending the game. How do you know he won't be taken out by someone in Russia who prefer an alternative to nuclear annihilation?
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 3:07 pm
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