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Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:35 am to narddogg81
"The description of Norway sounds like hell to me"
To me, it just sounds like a VERY different place that probably works well given its circumstances and culture. They have a nearly homogeneous culture, petro-dollars to help underwrite their socialist endeavors, and a culture focused more on the well being of the collective rather than the rights of the individual. They also don't have the responsibility of providing a large share of the world's innovation, nor does anyone look to Norway to, say, counterbalance the aims of rogue states. So, good for Norway, but I'm glad to be an American.
By the way, I wonder what Norway's immigration policy is. I truly have no idea, but I suspect it has to be pretty restricted. Their system seems largely based on social (and cost of living) pressure for everyone to work, but residents who don't share those norms could be difficult to support.
To me, it just sounds like a VERY different place that probably works well given its circumstances and culture. They have a nearly homogeneous culture, petro-dollars to help underwrite their socialist endeavors, and a culture focused more on the well being of the collective rather than the rights of the individual. They also don't have the responsibility of providing a large share of the world's innovation, nor does anyone look to Norway to, say, counterbalance the aims of rogue states. So, good for Norway, but I'm glad to be an American.
By the way, I wonder what Norway's immigration policy is. I truly have no idea, but I suspect it has to be pretty restricted. Their system seems largely based on social (and cost of living) pressure for everyone to work, but residents who don't share those norms could be difficult to support.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:35 am to Boatshoes
quote:
On pregnancy: Most women will never once see an obstetrician during their pregnancy. Almost everything is done by midwives. In the U.S., you usually see a doctor as soon as you think you might be pregnant. When I called the midwife here, she told me not to come in until I was at least 15 weeks. I got only one ultrasound. When we lived in Korea, they did 3D ultrasounds every two weeks! Here, my midwife listened to the baby with a long wooden horn that she pushes against my belly. It kind of freaked me out.
And yet the infant mortality rate in Norway is nearly half that of the US at 3.5 and 6.2 respectively. S. Korea is at 4.2.
I know, I know, you can't compare health outcomes with health care systems, lifestyle choices and all...
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:56 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
mortality rate in Norway is nearly half that of the US at 3.5 and 6.2 respectively.
Probably because their people are overall more intelligent and make better choices.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:01 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Probably because their people are overall more intelligent and make better choices.
Of course...
quote:
I know, I know, you can't compare health outcomes with health care systems, lifestyle choices and all...
Any attempt to compare health in the US with other countries is always met with the argument that health is not an outcome of health care.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:04 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
met with the argument that health is not an outcome of health care.
It normally is. Education is the same way.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 11:15 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:10 am to Boatshoes
People's understanding of "socialism" is pathetic. There is no real socialism on this planet. Dictators controlling everything is not socialism. When the powerful live better than the people, that is nothing close to socialism. Show me one nation where everyone lives the same. Then you can talk socialism. Venezuela is closer to slavery than socialism.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:17 am to WildTchoupitoulas
This is true, their infant mortality rates are much, much lower.
What do you postulate is the direct cause of their mortality rates being so much lower? As you accept the premise that the quality of care and amount of care is so much lower and of lower quality, what alternative do you suggest as the causation?
What do you postulate is the direct cause of their mortality rates being so much lower? As you accept the premise that the quality of care and amount of care is so much lower and of lower quality, what alternative do you suggest as the causation?
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:22 am to cokebottleag
quote:
As you accept the premise that the quality of care and amount of care is so much lower
I do not accept that premise.
For example, just because the Koreans give a pregnant woman a million MRIs doesn't mean that's better care.
Pumping a pregnant woman with antibiotics may not be better care either.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:23 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
And yet the infant mortality rate in Norway is nearly half that of the US at 3.5 and 6.2 respectively. S. Korea is at 4.2.
OK. Now stratify the US rate by various demographics. Compare the proportion of the higher risk demographics in the US against the typical demo of the comparison countries.
Statistical analysis has to be one of the most poorly understood (or willfully ignored) aspects of retail politics. People see what they want to see.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:24 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Well, a lot of European countries measure infant mortality differently than we do, for starters.
And yes, no health economist worth his salt would try to directly compare the two anyway since inputs are so very different.
And yes, no health economist worth his salt would try to directly compare the two anyway since inputs are so very different.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:25 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Life In A Socialized System
Individual choice and freedom is inherently against socialism.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:29 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
various demographics
Wealth per capita:
Norway, $130,543
United States, $55,867
You may be on to something here, apparently people are richer in that socialist country, and we all know rich people have better health outcomes due to better decision-making skilz.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:32 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
apparently people are richer in that socialist country,
Norway isn't a socialist country.
In fact, their economy is probably similar to the USA on the freedom index.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:36 am to WildTchoupitoulas
You do realize that Norway is economically a lot more like Kuwait and UAE than it is like Sweden or Denmark, right?
A mixed (leaning socialist) economy with almost unparalleled oil reserves with a tiny population.
You can’t really reproduce that here, homeslice.
A mixed (leaning socialist) economy with almost unparalleled oil reserves with a tiny population.
You can’t really reproduce that here, homeslice.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:36 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Norway, $130,543
United States, $55,867
You may be on to something here, apparently people are richer in that socialist country, and we all know rich people have better health outcomes due to better decision-making skilz.
OK. Now subtract out the shitpile of money gushing out of the North Sea. Their government has been prudent by stashing that wealth instead of spending it like drunken sailors. That wealth has almost nothing to do with individual entrepreneurship, and everything to do with luck (oil) and fiscal discipline at the federal level.
There is a lot to learn from other countries. When you conflate factors like this, though, you just undermine your credibility so badly that you come across as a hack.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 11:38 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:41 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Norway isn't a socialist country.
Isn't that what this thread is all about, "Life In A Socialized System" using Norway as an example?
Have you brought up that point with the OP?
Or is it that you're okay with it as long as it confirms your bias, but as soon as it doesn't you take exception?
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:44 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Wealth per capita:
Norway, $130,543
United States, $55,867
Where are you seeing these numbers?
ETA: Oh I see, you're looking at the median number.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 11:50 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:44 am to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
with almost unparalleled oil reserves with a tiny population.
I believe they have almost a trillion dollars in their Sovereign Wealth Fund.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:46 am to WildTchoupitoulas
That’s fair and the US does do a lot of unnecessary testing.
So you believe that the lower amount of testing is the primary factor for the mortality rate?
So you believe that the lower amount of testing is the primary factor for the mortality rate?
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