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Started By
Message
Life In A Socialized System
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:01 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:01 am
" There’s security—the government provides so much. Everyone gets a pension; full-time childcare is $350 a month, at the most; medical care is basically free. You don’t even have to worry about paying for college! It cost me $200 in enrollment fees to get a Masters in English...
...But the hardest adjustment, she explains, is the lack of variety. “There’s a sense that there’s just one right way to do things. And everyone does it that way. In America there are different parenting styles—co-sleeping, attachment parenting, etc. Here there is just one way, more or less: all kids go to bed at 7, all attend the same style of preschool, all wear boots, all eat the same lunch…that’s the Norwegian way.
On pregnancy: Most women will never once see an obstetrician during their pregnancy. Almost everything is done by midwives. In the U.S., you usually see a doctor as soon as you think you might be pregnant. When I called the midwife here, she told me not to come in until I was at least 15 weeks. I got only one ultrasound. When we lived in Korea, they did 3D ultrasounds every two weeks! Here, my midwife listened to the baby with a long wooden horn that she pushes against my belly. It kind of freaked me out.
On birth: I applied to give birth at the “no drugs” unit at the hospital. (Mostly because when you apply to the regular unit, there is a possibility you could be turned away if the hospital is full and sent to another hospital you may not be familiar with.) When they say no drugs, they mean no drugs. No exceptions. You can’t even get antibiotics if you’re positive for Group B strep. Women who’ve had a baby in the U.S. know about Strep B; every pregnant woman is tested for it, and if you test positive, you get antibiotics when you deliver so you can’t pass it to the baby and make the baby sick. Here, it’s not even mentioned. When I asked about it at the hospital the nurse just said, “We don’t worry about that.” At first I was appalled, but I’ve learned that in socialized medicine, they take calculated risks, and as my husband says..."
LINK
Be careful what you ask for. You just may get it.
...But the hardest adjustment, she explains, is the lack of variety. “There’s a sense that there’s just one right way to do things. And everyone does it that way. In America there are different parenting styles—co-sleeping, attachment parenting, etc. Here there is just one way, more or less: all kids go to bed at 7, all attend the same style of preschool, all wear boots, all eat the same lunch…that’s the Norwegian way.
On pregnancy: Most women will never once see an obstetrician during their pregnancy. Almost everything is done by midwives. In the U.S., you usually see a doctor as soon as you think you might be pregnant. When I called the midwife here, she told me not to come in until I was at least 15 weeks. I got only one ultrasound. When we lived in Korea, they did 3D ultrasounds every two weeks! Here, my midwife listened to the baby with a long wooden horn that she pushes against my belly. It kind of freaked me out.
On birth: I applied to give birth at the “no drugs” unit at the hospital. (Mostly because when you apply to the regular unit, there is a possibility you could be turned away if the hospital is full and sent to another hospital you may not be familiar with.) When they say no drugs, they mean no drugs. No exceptions. You can’t even get antibiotics if you’re positive for Group B strep. Women who’ve had a baby in the U.S. know about Strep B; every pregnant woman is tested for it, and if you test positive, you get antibiotics when you deliver so you can’t pass it to the baby and make the baby sick. Here, it’s not even mentioned. When I asked about it at the hospital the nurse just said, “We don’t worry about that.” At first I was appalled, but I’ve learned that in socialized medicine, they take calculated risks, and as my husband says..."
LINK
Be careful what you ask for. You just may get it.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 8:03 am
22
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:03 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Life In A Socialized System
See Venezuela
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:05 am to Boatshoes
quote:
You can’t even get antibiotics if you’re positive for Group B strep.
They couldn't... oh, I don't know... walk down the hall to the "drugs" unit and get some antibiotics?
Socialists are, for the most part, stupid. As is anyone who says otherwise.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:14 am to Wtodd
Did you just compare Oslo to Venezuela? 
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:15 am to AlterDWI
No.....just the socialized system part
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:17 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Life In A Socialized System
Should be fought off to the death.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 8:22 am to Boatshoes
We should build a separate socialized system for people who don’t pay. Maybe turn an abandoned warehouse into a free hospital so they don’t use the nice hospital. I don’t wanna catch diabetes or something when I go in for a tummy tuck
Posted on 5/25/18 at 9:12 am to Boatshoes
In a purely socialist system, "parenting" is done by the state. The lack of variety is a common trait, though, in goods and in thought.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 9:30 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Everyone gets a pension; full-time childcare is $350 a month, at the most; medical care is basically free. You don’t even have to worry about paying for college! It cost me $200 in enrollment fees to get a Masters in English...
In the long term this isn’t sustainable unless you have earners who are willing to sacrifice their wealth, and not evade the taxation or leave the system. Look at Greece especially for an example that failed.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 9:32 am to el Gaucho
"Catch diabetes"?
Posted on 5/25/18 at 9:47 am to Boatshoes
Having traveled to Austria and Hungary a few months ago and spending quality time at each I really understand why they like their lifestyle and socialized systems in place.
-Hardly no homeless people
-Easy public transportation (buses and trains)
-Everything was super clean even public bathrooms.
-School systems are in tact
Most of the people I talked to were just flat out happy making 15k euro a year (if that). They live in a beautiful country. Easy access to walk and ride bikes everywhere. Not to mention Austria government paid for many of the solar panels on the roofs of homes out in the country side.
I disagree with there particular view of government and how it should operate but who are we to judge. What I learned is the system they have in place works well for a 10 million person country that’s homogenous.
-Hardly no homeless people
-Easy public transportation (buses and trains)
-Everything was super clean even public bathrooms.
-School systems are in tact
Most of the people I talked to were just flat out happy making 15k euro a year (if that). They live in a beautiful country. Easy access to walk and ride bikes everywhere. Not to mention Austria government paid for many of the solar panels on the roofs of homes out in the country side.
I disagree with there particular view of government and how it should operate but who are we to judge. What I learned is the system they have in place works well for a 10 million person country that’s homogenous.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 9:55 am to Boatshoes
That's a good read. also some good comments by "Cabin" at the bottom. Anybody who has lived overseas for a few years can probably relate to a lot it. Not the specifics of Norway, but more the "differentness".
A couple of nuggets:
Norway isn't really setting the world on fire in innovation. Nowhere in Europe is, really. Steve Jobs strikes me as a real a-hole, but I have hella respect for what he accomplished. Big accomplishments come from sticking out. I may not like the individuals who do it on a personal level, but blending in does not produce greatness. Easy (and hypocritical, IMHO) to sit there and celebrate modesty while you enjoy the fruits of those who don't.
I am not a "Hail fellow, well met" guy, but I also see this as being just oppressive. You an get a flavor of the same thing here in Northern Minnesota. Lots of walking around with RBF. Reminds me of living in Japan. I would walk into an big underground subway platform where you could see for 100 yards up and down, with a sea of gray suits and black hair, and barely hear anything other than the trains (that were not even there yet). You got on a packed car (where you literally can't even fall over because it's so crowded) and nobody is saying a word. Truly Orwellian sometimes.
From the comments ("Cabin"):
The first part is very true. Supermarkets suck everywhere. Americans have no idea how spoiled we are here, in a good way. As for eating healthier, nobody is making you eat bad stuff, so don't tell me the US is to blame for this.
As for the drugs, neither Japan nor Singapore (both places I have lived) had this problem. They were serious about enforcing drug laws and instilling a culture against it.
The US has its problems, but trying to emulate these "Nirvana" places overseas is simplistic. Take best practices, but recognize the tradeoffs.
A couple of nuggets:
quote:
People here don’t boast or play up their accomplishments. When I first met my husband, we’d gone on three dates, and I thought, “He doesn’t seem ambitious—is that a problem?” But now I see that he doesn’t lack ambition; he’s just not going to step on toes or kill himself to get somewhere. That’s janteloven.
Norway isn't really setting the world on fire in innovation. Nowhere in Europe is, really. Steve Jobs strikes me as a real a-hole, but I have hella respect for what he accomplished. Big accomplishments come from sticking out. I may not like the individuals who do it on a personal level, but blending in does not produce greatness. Easy (and hypocritical, IMHO) to sit there and celebrate modesty while you enjoy the fruits of those who don't.
quote:
When we lived here for the first time, eight years ago, I baked a lemon poppy-seed cake for my neighbors after they had a baby. When I brought it over, you would have thought I had handed them a severed head. They were completely shocked. I think people here tend to be stoic. There’s value to being able to “tough it out” on your own. I think it’s embarrassing to need help, so no one wants to embarrass you by offering help.
I am not a "Hail fellow, well met" guy, but I also see this as being just oppressive. You an get a flavor of the same thing here in Northern Minnesota. Lots of walking around with RBF. Reminds me of living in Japan. I would walk into an big underground subway platform where you could see for 100 yards up and down, with a sea of gray suits and black hair, and barely hear anything other than the trains (that were not even there yet). You got on a packed car (where you literally can't even fall over because it's so crowded) and nobody is saying a word. Truly Orwellian sometimes.
From the comments ("Cabin"):
quote:
Supermarkets are tiny compared to anything in the USA, so prepare for withdrawal. The selection is scant, but who needs an entire aisle of cereal and chips, right? The produce selection is meager. The meat is quite good, but expensive (the government keeps the use of antibiotics to the lowest in Europe). The good news is that you’ll learn to cook a lot – with a lot less. After a while you won’t really miss the selection that much. You’ll probably eat healthier too.
Drug are a problem – especially in the cities – and I’m not just talking about weed. Oslo is the Heroin capital of Europe, and it shows. Junkies shoot up in public, with no fear of being hassled by the police. Discarded syringes in parks and playgrounds are not uncommon. As a parent, this is the most disturbing part of living in Norway. I have disposed of dozens of syringes lying in and around the park/playgrounds. If you’re not on the look out – you may never see them. But they’re there.
The first part is very true. Supermarkets suck everywhere. Americans have no idea how spoiled we are here, in a good way. As for eating healthier, nobody is making you eat bad stuff, so don't tell me the US is to blame for this.
As for the drugs, neither Japan nor Singapore (both places I have lived) had this problem. They were serious about enforcing drug laws and instilling a culture against it.
The US has its problems, but trying to emulate these "Nirvana" places overseas is simplistic. Take best practices, but recognize the tradeoffs.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:01 am to Boatshoes
quote:
Here, my midwife listened to the baby with a long wooden horn that she pushes against my belly. It kind of freaked me out.
This made me think of Dwight from The Office.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:06 am to Boatshoes
Socialized medicine may be great at first...maybe the first five years or so. But when the money starts to run out, diverted, or stolen (politicians can't help themselves), that's when there is a little cut here, a little cut there, then bigger cuts, and fifteen years down the road you are left with a completely shite system. With the efficiency for corruption that our politicians have, it might only take two years for it to be nothing more than a huge pile of steaming hot shite.
My wife (no pics) and I had our first child born in a socialized medical system. Choices were few, including your choice of doctor. It was more or less their way or the highway. I was not overly pleased with the hospitals or doctors but when you have few or no alternatives, you're stuck.
My wife (no pics) and I had our first child born in a socialized medical system. Choices were few, including your choice of doctor. It was more or less their way or the highway. I was not overly pleased with the hospitals or doctors but when you have few or no alternatives, you're stuck.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 10:13 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:10 am to Quaker
quote:
Having traveled to Austria and Hungary a few months ago and spending quality time at each I really understand why they like their lifestyle and socialized systems in place.
No offense, really, but this is a good example of "Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there." There is a huge difference between a visit (even if it is for several months) and knowing this is your new life.
As an American, you will appreciate all the stuff you cite. You will also chafe at the crappy stores that are only open half the day. You will see stuff that you KNOW we do better here, and will resent the fact that the drive to innovate and change is stifled. You will notice that charitable giving is almost non-existent, and that "morals" have very little underpinning. Many other things that are just out of sync with your basic wiring.
I'm not saying Judeo-Christian values and mores are perfect, but they are the foundation of a US culture that is far and away the most charitable in the world. With that gone, there is less "mission" in life for everybody, including atheists. Secularists will argue that, but I have spent enough time overseas (on all continents except Africa) to observe this. This is not a "rich white country" thing, either. Latin America has a pretty strong sense of these values, but Asia doesn't.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:16 am to Boatshoes
You're living in one. America
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:16 am to Boatshoes
The countries you mentioned effectively have 1 race. This doesn’t work so well in countries where certain groups take advantage of gubment resources more than others.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:18 am to Boatshoes
quote:everybody pays massive income tax, 25% vat, everybody contributes directly to the medical system regardless of income. There is no free
There’s security—the government provides so much. Everyone gets a pension; full-time childcare is $350 a month, at the most; medical care is basically free. You don’t even have to worry about paying for college! It cost me $200 in enrollment fees to get a Masters in English
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:25 am to Boatshoes
The description of Norway sounds like hell to me
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:30 am to Eurocat
quote:
"Catch diabetes"?
Well, yeah. Why do you think it's growing at such a rate? People passing it to each other. That's way.
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