re: Libertarianism is a cancer for the right

Basically yes

Burke advocated for Christian influence in the state. He also advocated for preserving institutions of the state.

Libertarianism is not, by definition, conservatism. One is for a minimalist state (or no state), the other is for using the state to enforce social order. There are shared goals, but with differences in how the state (or lack of it) factor in getting to that end goal

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Yeah, you call libertarianism a cance

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I think I called it "a good thought exercise for high schoolers" actually

He was 18 or 19 when he sent that email so .. .. lol

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It will probably involve policies that are more left wing than I'd personally like them to be, yes.

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Then I stand by my comment and I don't know why you disagreed.

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Immigration in your libertarian system won't work either because not every country is libertarian.

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What would that matter?

If we don't have a social safety net, why would Mexico having one affect us in terms of immigration? I reckon that would make emigration from those states less likely.

You're applying a bad argument for tariffs to a subject that is in no way related to the underlying meat you're going for.

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It’s not my version, it is the textbook definition. Go on Wikipedia under conservatism and find where libertarian beliefs lineup.

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The general consensus on this board for 10-ish years (from a few years after the WOT started and they realized not listening to me was foolish and until Trump's populism ramped up in 2016) was that conservatism required limited government influence and protection for individual liberty.

Why did you ignore my question and only focus on ignoring the pivoting of the LARP of "conservative" on the American right the past 20 years?

Where does individual liberty fall in your version of "conservatism"?

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Then I stand by my comment and I don't know why you disagreed.

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There is a difference in leftism and using policy as a tool.

If a policy will clearly work, regardless of where it falls on the ideological spectrum, we should implement it.

Will extremely low corporate tax rates still work as corporations need fewer and fewer employees to operate? A large part of the whole logic to having low corporate rates is to spur job growth.

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Immigration in your libertarian system won't work either because not every country is libertarian.

What would that matter?

If we don't have a social safety net, why would Mexico having one affect us in terms of immigration? I reckon that would make emigration from those states less likely.

You're applying a bad argument for tariffs to a subject that is in no way related to the underlying meat you're going for.

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Because you will continuously drive wages down via an endless supply of migrants who have much higher birthrates than native citizens.

What do you think happens to the average quality of immigrant if you open the border? Will they generally be better people, or worse?

Tariffs aren't relevant to this at all.

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There is a difference in leftism and using policy as a tool.

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When you use leftism as a policy tool, then you are labeled a leftist.

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If a policy will clearly work, regardless of where it falls on the ideological spectrum, we should implement it.

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All you're doing is arguing that leftism may be good sometimes "if it works"

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A large part of the whole logic to having low corporate rates is to spur job growth.

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Do you think higher tax rates will spur growth?

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Because you will continuously drive wages down via an endless supply of migrants who have much higher birthrates than native citizens.

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What does this have to do with their home countries having social welfare states?

And lower wages isn't a bad thing for our economy at large. The redistributive policies you want to "raise the floor" (a socialist ideal) is why Europe's economy is so stagnant and in trouble compared to our's. Additionally, it makes the overall population much more poor compared to us.

We have seen this policies in action and they suck. But I imagine we're 1 or 2 posts away from "that wasn't real socialism"

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What do you think happens to the average quality of immigrant if you open the border? Will they generally be better people, or worse?

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If they are industrious and come here to work, they mirror my family who came through Ellis Island and who were kicked out of Canada. Those people you describe are my literal ancestors.

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Where does individual liberty fall in your version of "conservatism"?

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I am not iconoclastic on individual liberty, it’s not black and white. Without some restriction you end up with a societal zoo.

As some examples:

If you pay for your own food and healthcare, eat as much shite as you want. If you are on food stamps or Medicare/medicaid, you should be limited in what you are allowed to eat

On guns, I oppose restrictions on silencers, bump stocks etc. I don’t have an issue with red flag laws, as long as there is consequences for false reporting. People with mental illness, who are troons, Muslim should not own guns.

I get the libertarian argument for abortion, famous violinist player and all. Still needs to be banned. It’s contributing to societal decay.

Birth right citizenship needs to go. People who are 2nd, 3rd gen here who still call their ancestral land “home” have no business being in this country.

No gay marriage. No sex Ed until high school and it should be limited to teaching about STDs.

Domestic companies should be able to operate as they wish. It’s reasonable to regulate exports that could impact the nation.

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When you use leftism as a policy tool, then you are labeled a leftist.

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I'm pretty left on some environmental stuff. So be it. If an issue is right, its right regardless of ideology.

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All you're doing is arguing that leftism may be good sometimes "if it works"

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Yes, I think things that work are good. You caught me.

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Do you think higher tax rates will spur growth?

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I think that we will be in a situation where we aren't choosing between growth and high rates sometime in the future. And I'm not saying we suddenly tax the shite out of corporations either, but as they employ fewer and fewer people you will have to raise rates to compensate.

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What does this have to do with their home countries having social welfare states?

And lower wages isn't a bad thing for our economy at large. The redistributive policies you want to "raise the floor" (a socialist ideal) is why Europe's economy is so stagnant and in trouble compared to our's. Additionally, it makes the overall population much more poor compared to us.

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Europe is currently importing thousands of idiots with completely different cultural values to their native citizens, and its already causing issues and will only get worse. That isn't even touching the economic bit.

Low wages is good for the bottom line of companies, but have you considered what that does for the average American? Housing is unaffordable as is, you want to lower wages and increase demand for it? Does that seem smart?

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f they are industrious and come here to work, they mirror my family who came through Ellis Island and who were kicked out of Canada. Those people you describe are my literal ancestors.

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If they are industrious and come here to work they can go through the proper channels now. We can make legal immigration easier without inviting a bunch of 70IQ people who don't culturally align with us in by opening the border.