re: Knowing what you know now, how did Floyd die?

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I could repeat all the facts, but you still won't accept it was homicide.

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thank you for being respectful in your arguments...

we disagree in a few areas..

I want to get the facts right, I hate being wrong

you convinced me the Floyd's intake of drugs was a mix of drugs that medical experts might describe as "recreational"....that medically speaking, he didn't OD...based on typical intake

meaning most people survive to do again tomorrow...

we do know, 2 people can drink the same amount of wine, but a daily wine drinker won't feel a thing and the other like my sister in law can be quit tipsy after half a glass of wine. I've seen it....so intake is relative to how it impacts your brain!!! bottom line, everyone is different



I am no longer convinced the officer's knee was the reason for floyd's death... we know Floyd was on drugs, his behavior looked like he was having trouble controlling himself, his thinking his actions his emotions...

until further notice I am not changing my mind based on all the evidence errrr the facts

thank you for your contribution in this thread...

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The above being said, what should have happened was, He should have been arrested and taken to jail 10 to 15 minutes before he died.

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they literally tried for any 10 minutes. He was tweaking too hard

Like the bitch he was.

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THC - he could have passed a routine drug screen for employment.
meth - lower than 3 orders of magnitude (1000x) lower than median recreational use.
Fentanyl - less than the smallest dose available.

I have commented that his behavior is inconsistent with what you would expect for the amounts and types of drugs he was on more than once, you just ignored that. its not moderate to low levels, its low to routinely undetectable on emplyment screening levels, no where near moderate levels much less overdose amounts.

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I'm not debating the amounts of each drug he had in his system - you have made it very clear, via the tox report, that he had low dosages of each drug in his blood. One of the things I question about these numbers is that you seem to look at each quantity of drug in Floyd's system at an individual level.

From another poster:

Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:1.

Fentanyl 11 ng/mL2.

Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL3.

4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL4.

Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL5.

11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL6.

Cotinine positive7.

Caffeine positiveB.

Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol,isopropanol, or acetoneC.

Urine drug screen: presumptive positive for cannabinoids,amphetamines, and fentanyl/metaboliteD.

Urine drug screen confirmation: morphine (free) 86 ng/mL


So, 12ng of fentanyl very well may be the smallest dose provided in a medical setting, and it might not cause an overdose at that quantity (11ng for Floyd) acting alone, but what about when you consider it was mixed with meth (however small the amount) and caffeine, as well as morphine and norfentanyl? So while 12ng of fentanyl alone might not cause an overdose, do you know how fentanyl reacts with meth or the statistics on fentanyl related deaths when meth is present in the system?

You claim that 11ng of fentanyl would not be a lethal dose, which I also question. My reasoning for questioning this claim is due to the fact that an analysis of fentanyl related deaths in 2015 found that the average fentanyl concentration among the 48 overdose deaths was 12.5 ng/mL.

"Methods: Fentanyl related deaths from the Franklin County coroner's office from January to September 2015 were identified. Presumptive positive fentanyl results were confirmed by quantitative analysis using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry (LC/MS/MS) and were able to quantify fentanyl, norfentanyl, alfentanyl, and sufentanyl.

Results: 48 fentanyl deaths were identified. Mean fentanyl concentrations were 12.5 ng/ml, (range 0.5 ng/ml to >40 ng/ml). Mean norfentanyl concentrations were 1.9 ng/ml (range none detected to 8.3 ng/ml). No appreciable concentrations of norfentanyl could be detected in 20 of 48 cases (42%) and were less than 1 ng/ml in 25 cases (52%). Elevated fentanyl concentrations did not correlate with rises in norfentanyl levels. In several cases fentanyl concentrations were strikingly high (22 ng/ml and 20 ng/ml) with no norfentanyl detected ( PubMed.gov)."

So, based on this data, Floyd had a blood fentanyl concentration slightly below the average concentration of 48 fentanyl related deaths. He also had almost 3x the average norfentanyl concentration in his system. When you compound this information with the fact that Floyd was on multiple stimulants while concurrently using a significant amount of opiates, I don't think you can just blindly rule out an overdose because of the seemingly small concentrations of the toxins that were in his system (and yes, I understand that the coroner's report said it was not an accidental death, but more homicidal in nature - I'm just extremely wary to accept any report on a politicized event as fact in this day and age).

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Fentanyl overdoses pass out in their car and slowly asphyxiate, they don't give 3 cops physical difficulty in compliance.

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Subjects on Meth certainly do......guess what else he was on

Drugs and excited delirium same thing I said 4 months ago.

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Knowing what you know now, how did Floyd die?

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Karma... Or as Tommy Lee Jones character said in NCFOM, "natural causes... Natural to the line of work he was in" (some liberty with the quote).

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Floyd killed Floyd

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Good answer. A drug cocktail and a lifetime of piss poor decision making killed Floyd. The world is a better place without him.