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re: Judge Amy Berman Jackson Rules the Bureaucracy Controls the Executive Branch, Not POTUS

Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:48 am to
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90572 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:48 am to
Appointment clause and plenary powers are interesting.
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
20943 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:49 am to
quote:

No I'm not

Yes, you are. You are creating your own scheme whereby the President is cut off from action and his direct subordinates (which is everyone in the Executive Branch) are able to act independently of him. That is a figurehead.

quote:

Except, it's not, and hasn't been?

You are wrong and you are attempting to pull out of thin air a series of arguments that violate the opening of Art II of the Constitution. The Founders even discussed this at the constitutional convention. Scalia lays this out in Morrison v Olson. The People, across the entire nation vote for President, and that President is the sole individual that has the entire executive authority of the United States vested to him. Executive authority means you get to hire and fire people. You can assign them work duties. You can determine security clearances. You can bar them from federal property like Bush did to Bloch. And more. Trump can fire this dude at OSC. It's just that simple.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
35494 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:50 am to
quote:

Starting to feel like a pivot is emerging.


This entire thread is about operations: the firing of a department employee. Nothing is more operational than personnel management.

You have tried to extrapolate it into something else.

No one has suggested the executive can make laws or violate the constitution.



Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:53 am to
quote:

You are creating your own scheme whereby the President is cut off from action and his direct subordinates

Incorrect. Learn how to read. I've clearly posted about the appointments clause at least 3x ITT.

quote:

are able to act independently of him

Never even discussed this.

I said the Executive authority can be limited to the statute used by Congress to create the agency, within certain specific Constitutional limits (like the appointments clause).

That doesn't make the President a "figurehead". It means the Executive is limited to how Congress set up the agency (within the limits above), like our system was always derived.

Does this limit certain authority of the President? Yes. See: The APA, Civil Service Act, etc. Also, see: the USSC rulings on Biden's SL forgiveness, Trump's bumpstock ban, etc.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:53 am to
quote:

This entire thread is about operations

I think the pivot has officially occured.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90572 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:55 am to
Inferior officer?

One chief question recurs under the "by Law" language: Who are "inferior Officers", not subject to the requirement of advice and consent; and (2) what constitutes a "Department", when Congress seeks to place the appointment power away from the President? As an initial matter, most government employees are not officers and thus are not subject to the Appointments Clause. In Buckley v. Valeo, the Supreme Court held that only those appointees "exercising significant authority pursuant to the laws of the United States" are "Officers of the United States", and hence it is only those who exercise such "significant authority" who must be appointed by a mechanism set forth in the Appointments Clause. The Framers did not define the line between principal officers and inferior officers, and the Supreme Court has been content to approach the analysis on a case-by-case basis rather than through a definitive test.
Posted by Zgeo
Baja Oklahoma
Member since Jul 2021
3681 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:56 am to
What an idiot. Has she never read the constitution? I have no faith in the judicial branch there are too many political activist and retards that are judeges….
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:57 am to
quote:

and the Supreme Court has been content to approach the analysis on a case-by-case basis rather than through a definitive test.


Correct, which is why the confident, decisive proclamations in these discussions are always funny.

And I said it's very likely in this specific instance that the appointments clause will permit the replacement, ITT.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90572 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 11:57 am to
So Amy is going to get kicked in the cooter 5-4

The Court listed in Morrison v. Olson (1988) certain factors as hallmarks of "inferior Officer" status, such as removability by a higher executive branch official other than the President, and limitations on the officer's duties, jurisdiction, and tenure.
This post was edited on 3/2/25 at 11:59 am
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

My best guess is the Trump team figured they’re better off getting rid of the people ASAP and fighting it out in court rather than taking the time needed to build a paper trail to justify firing them.


They can’t start an investigation outside the club.
Posted by TigerVespamon
Member since Dec 2010
7514 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

Who nose where Amy Berman studied?
Is that supposed to be a jew joke?
Posted by FATBOY TIGER
Valhalla
Member since Jan 2016
13146 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

6 minutes and 2 posts later, you Beetlejuiced him right up


It's to fricking easy.
Posted by tommyga
Member since Oct 2024
140 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 3:23 pm to
Berman. 'Nuff said.
Posted by RockyMtnTigerWDE
War Damn Eagle Dad!
Member since Oct 2010
108972 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

She is an "activist" because she does not embrace the Imperial Presidency


It’s interesting, you call out someone for labeling the judge and then you label the president who actually has the constitution on his side, and precedent on a similar ruling. That’s classic dumb Hank.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

quote:

She is an "activist" because she does not embrace the Imperial Presidency
It’s interesting, you call out someone for labeling the judge and then you label the president who actually has the constitution on his side, and precedent on a similar ruling
You do not seem to be very well-read.

The term "Imperial Presidency" is not unique to Trump, and I hardly coined the phrase. It is a reference to any over-expansive view of the powers of the Executive Branch.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115410 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 4:26 pm to
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

Given these cases, lower courts clearly got the message – a message amplified by President Joe Biden, who appointed Dellinger. On the third "independent" position, the commissioner of Social Security, Biden’s Office of Legal Counsel declared that "the best reading of Collins and Seila Law" is that "the President need not heed the Commissioner’s statutory tenure protection." Two circuits (the Ninth and Eleventh) have ruled consistently with that interpretation in favor of executive authority to remove such officers.


Lol
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 5:39 pm to
It's theoretically possible, and would be in line with their DOJ dismissing the Florida prosecution of Trump's co-defendants prior to the 2nd Circuit ruling, because they'd have to argue the philosophically opposite position in that case, had the 2nd Circuit overruled Cannon (which most scholars believed they would do for the 3rd time in that case, I believe). Can't argue an "Unified" Executive without permitting executive officers from selecting inferior ones.
This post was edited on 3/2/25 at 5:40 pm
Posted by Icansee4miles
Trolling the Tickfaw
Member since Jan 2007
32253 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 5:46 pm to
Right on cue. And all this time, I thought that E Eric had the lowest grades for a student ever graduating from a Louisiana Law School. You make him look like a Rhodes Scholar.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476648 posts
Posted on 3/2/25 at 5:49 pm to
quote:

. And all this time, I thought that E Eric had the lowest grades for a student ever graduating from a Louisiana Law School.


I got invited to the Big Law (for LA) mixers after 1st semester

*ETA: and I have 2 CALIs
This post was edited on 3/2/25 at 5:50 pm
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