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re: Is there such thing as a basic human right?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 8:55 am to AggieHank86
Posted on 3/18/25 at 8:55 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Are "room and board" among those rights? Historically, no. Some people, like the author you reference, think that should change. Discussion of that possibility does not hurt anyone or anything.
I didn't finish the epilogue, which is where the author listed his policy suggestions. This may be outlined there but I wonder what ensuring housing for everyone would look like in practice.
0
Posted on 3/18/25 at 8:58 am to NytroBud
quote:
Ever read the Declaration of Independance? It is stated " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
Do you understand that this was written while slavery was practiced in the USA? Did the Creator forget to give enslaved people these same rights?
This is why that argument is irrelevant here. I didn't ask what a historical document claimed were rights for white men hundreds of years ago.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 8:58 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Theoretically, one can argue that the flying spaghetti monster gives these rights but it doesn't matter who gives them. It matters how they are enforced or ensured or protected.
I seem to remember you expressing belief in God at some point.
Now you seem to be mocking God.
Do I remember incorrectly?
I'm asking because if you are an atheist, then the discussion is over. You'll be like the rest of them who deny justice, rights, morals truly exist until the next time you become morally outraged yourself, ignoring the self-contradiction.
I'll step out of the thread if that is the case, because I already know where it will go.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 8:59 am to RohanGonzales
quote:
Anything that wastes any of that time, like this discussion, hurts anyone who could be doing something more useful.
your post wastes time and hurts anyone who could be doing something more useful. So, bye.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:01 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Do you understand that this was written while slavery was practiced in the USA? Did the Creator forget to give enslaved people these same rights?
They had them, but people weren't protecting them. Turns out, people have a long history of not listening to God.
Unless you're an atheist.
If you're an atheist, they didn't even have a real right to not be enslaved. So why isn't it o.k. to re-enslave them? If we had a consensus to do so, of course.
If a majority show of hands voted to do it again, that would be o.k., right?
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 9:02 am
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:03 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
nor is it what our system of government is based on.
Our system of government is based on the whims of people in charge. To deny that is naivety. Hence everyone who says muh declaration of independence and fails to acknowledge that the same people who wrote that liberty is a right owned slaves.
quote:He's American.
I see that you are acknowledging this and I take it that the author you mentioned is not an American?
quote:
Our founding and governing documents clearly state that rights are inalienable and conferred upon human beings by our Creator.
I know what these documents say. I don't need 15 posters to regurgitate them. I don't care what dead men wrote down 300 years ago. These same dead men who wrote about liberty being a right owned slaves.
quote:
The concept of rights being socially constructed (when put forth by an American) is an attempt to have the cake and eat it too by someone who wants to deny God and claim "separation of church and state."
Not at all true and I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Rights ARE socially constructed. No one has any rights outside of a society.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:05 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I seem to remember you expressing belief in God at some point.
I am a practicing Catholic and am involved in my parish. That has no bearing on this discussion.
quote:How?
Now you seem to be mocking God.
People have free will. God does not control the human race.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:06 am to 4cubbies
You have to have a manmade construct such as forming a government in order to have rights which are a manmade construct subject to the will of said government.
A right is wish or a thought from which can only be afforded by laws from which come from an authoritarian edict.
My 02c
A right is wish or a thought from which can only be afforded by laws from which come from an authoritarian edict.
My 02c
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:07 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Rights ARE socially constructed. No one has any rights outside of a society.
So again, if a majority show of hands decided that women shouldn't be able to vote and blacks would be re-enslaved, the that's just the way it is, yeah?
No problem, no injustice—if there are no rights other than consensus, then with consensus there can be no violation of rights, and without violation of rights, there can be no injustice. Simple logic.
So what you're saying is that the enslavement of black people was not a violation of their rights. Women not being able to vote was not a violation of their rights.
Just want to make sure you'll stand by those statements.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:08 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
A right is wish or a thought from which can only be afforded by laws from which come from an authoritarian edict.
Civilization is only made possible the threat of violence from men. Sorry ladies, but no one is afraid of you.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:09 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Rights ARE socially constructed. No one has any rights outside of a society.
You're confusing is vs ought.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:09 am to Von
quote:
hey were stating the obvious after fighting a revolution and creating a nation to protect those obvious rights for white men.
I'm talking about rights for everyone, not just the people the founders thought worthy.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:10 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I am a practicing Catholic and am involved in my parish. That has no bearing on this discussion.
Of course it does. You're being entirely self-contradictory. You either don't believe your stated Christian beliefs or you don't believe what you're saying in this thread. They make contradictory truth claims. Both can't be true.
quote:
How?
The "flying spaghetti monster" term is the most oft used phrase by atheists to mock the belief in God.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:10 am to Flats
quote:
You're confusing is vs ought.
It sounds like people here are arguing that rights are "shoulds." Things that everyone should have. How would housing not fall under a should? Everyone should have housing, too, correct?
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 9:11 am
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Theoretically, one can argue that the flying spaghetti monster gives these rights
Not unless one believes her soul is mozzarella, tomato paste, and pasta.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Is there such thing as a basic human right?
The right to free speech.
Freedom of religion.
The right to keep and bear arms.
The right to remain silent.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I know what these documents say. I don't need 15 posters to regurgitate them. I don't care what dead men wrote down 300 years ago.
Any particular reason you're being such a jerk about this?
I haven't been to you.
In any case, it's odd to deny that our form of government and the concepts it was founded on have no bearing on this discussion.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:12 am to 4cubbies
quote:
quote:
You're confusing is vs ought.
It sounds like people here are arguing that rights are "shoulds." Things that everyone should have. How would housing not fall under a should? Everyone should have housing, too, correct?
I answered that a piece back.
Anything that someone else has to provide for you is not an inalienable right.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:13 am to 4cubbies
quote:Shelter? Is there nothing one could do to cede that right? Is that not, in fact, exactly what is happening?
Everyone should have housing, too, correct?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:14 am to 4cubbies
quote:
It sounds like people here are arguing that rights are "shoulds." Things that everyone should have.
No. They are saying that just because they believe a right does exist and should be protected, that doesn't mean a particular culture will protect it.
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