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re: Is there anyone here who supports fiat curreny/the Federal Reserve?

Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:01 pm to
Posted by Porky
Member since Aug 2008
19141 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

You keep saying fiat isn't stable but you haven't provided dick for statistics to support your view

Check the prices of cars in 1964. You think the dollar is worth as much as it was 50 years ago? The same amount in weight of gold today will buy pretty much the same house or car it did back then. But try that with the same amount of dollars today. Try to buy a fairly nice house for $15,000-$20,000. Try to buy a brand new fully loaded Cadillac for $5000. The dealer would laugh you off the lot.

This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 6:09 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:04 pm to
quote:

Pretty sure the Feds won't allow you to do this.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about, as usual.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:07 pm to
quote:

Central banking is, from a certain perspective, the greatest evil on earth.

Only because you don't understand it, mograyback.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:09 pm to
quote:

The same amount in weight of gold today will buy pretty much the same house or car it did back then. But try that with the same amount of dollars today.
This is so incorrect that it made me .
Posted by Porky
Member since Aug 2008
19141 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:54 pm to
quote:

This is so incorrect that it made me

Well, the 60s isn't probably the best example when it comes to gold because of the regulations during that time but since the mid-late 70s, and other times in history, it's more accurate.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:57 pm to
Central banking is indeed evil.

It's an enslaving, manipulative tool of the elite.

Not that I'm a bible thumper, far from it, but there is a reason the only time Jesus gets violent is with bankers.

There is a reason we banished the concept twice in the 1800s after strong uproar from the people and it had to be snuck back in during holiday in 1913.

We have the power to create currency without the burden of interest through our treasury. It's insane that we've allowed central banking to enslave with interest for so long.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 6:59 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

Central banking is indeed evil.

It's an enslaving, manipulative tool of the elite.

And speaking for the elite, we thank you!

quote:

there is a reason the only time Jesus gets violent is with bankers.

But they weren't CENTRAL bankers, now were they, mogray???
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 7:15 pm to
quote:


We have the power to create currency without the burden of interest through our treasury. It's insane that we've allowed central banking to enslave with interest for so long.

Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 7:27 pm to
Do you realize you quoted your own post and replied to yourself, mo?
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 7:50 pm to
Yes. Because you seem to always skip that point in your degrading responses.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 7:51 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134939 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:26 pm to
Don't start lying, mo. We went through your silly and false statements several times when you were posting under your mograyback screen name. You never came close to substantiating your incorrect understanding of money and how the Treasury Dept authorizes the release of Federal Reserve Notes.

There's no need to repeat that exercise just because you are now posting using an alter.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 8:59 pm to
quote:

With the FED we have the burden of interest.


If you mean by "we" the federal government, then your statement would be incorrect. Interest minus expenses is sent back to the US Treasury.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 9:03 pm
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:04 pm to
I would prefer the gold standard under Bretton Wood to what we have today BUT like Ron Paul and Milton Freidman I would prefer the dollar stand as a free trading commodity on it's on.

I don't think we have to have or necessarily need the Fed.

Without the Fed essentially fixing the price of dollars by setting discount rates that deposits trade for between banks we are not allowing the dollar to trade freely. If deposits were traded in unregulated auctions we would not need to peg the dollar to gold. It would be a commodity itself and it's value easy to understand relative to other commodities.

Fed proponents will say the Fed is necessary to pump money when the economy slow and to reduce money supplies when inflation threatens. That would not be necessary if the dollar traded freely. The markets can react much faster than Yellen.

Just like other commodities periods of scarcity and periods of over abundance would correct themselves through markets.

In a free market I doubt we would have even had the banking crises of 07-08. First off those banks would not have been so leveraged. Secondly liquidity would not have been an issue as money could have been had if one was willing to pay for it.

Think about the oil embargoes under Carter and Nixon. It was not the embargo that created shortages. It was the price fixing of the federal government. Both Presidents capped gas prices and nobody wanted to bring it to market. Reagan ended this stupid policy and OPEC has never been able to create a US shortage since. If money was freely priced we would never have a shortage.


This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 9:44 pm
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:49 pm to
quote:


None of these are as stable as a currency with a value based on weight in gold.



Almost all of the periods of both the highest inflation and highest deflation occurred prior to the Federal Reserve. The graph below clearly shows that extreme variation was more common prior to the Reserve:





You are confusing mean return with volatility.


Fiat currency has a negative mean return compared with the flat mean return of gold backed currency - but its value is far less volatile. Fiat currency also has the highly desirable property of exhibiting very little (if any) deflation.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 9:51 pm
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:59 pm to
quote:

I would prefer the gold standard under Bretton Wood


Psst.... we didn't have enough gold to support it.

The entire system was doomed to failure. The U.S. did not have enough gold to back every dollar. By the time Nixon ended it, our gold reserves were depleted by 50% in barely over ten years and the foreign banks held more dollars than we had gold to back them.
It was only a matter of time before these banks would dump their dollars, collapsing our gold supply to zero and the dollar along with it.


Is that what you'd prefer? Seriously?
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 10:00 pm
Posted by Gmorgan4982
Member since May 2005
101750 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 9:59 pm to
The main problem with the current monetary system is the violence that is needed to keep it going. The currency is backed by IRS thugs who demand you pay them in dollars and it is also backed by the guns of the military. But most economists overlook that and, yet, we're still expected to respect their views on the subject.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 10:00 pm
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:01 pm to
quote:

The currency is backed by IRS thugs who demand you pay them in dollars


If you income is in dollars this shouldn't be a problem.


Otherwise, I'd recommend you sell your semi-automatic rifle collection on Craigslist to pay the bill.
Posted by Gmorgan4982
Member since May 2005
101750 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:08 pm to
Is there some point you are trying to make here?
Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
39349 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:15 pm to
quote:

Just one man's opinion, but if you create rules that reign in government spending, force them to have an actual budget, eliminate the defecit spending, and reign in big government you solve the Fiat currency issues and the hidden inflation tax. It's the government you should have a problem with, not the FED.

Now, should they be audited and should there be more transperancy? Yes. However: ask yourself who is preventing this level of transperancy, the FED itself or the government?
You've got it backwards. You're saying that if you hire a hitman to shoot someone, you can't be held accountable because you didn't pull the trigger.
Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
39349 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:20 pm to
quote:

What is preventing you from starting a commodity based currency? Have a go at it.
Let's ask JFK...Oh, wait...
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