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re: Is the scuttling of Operation Northwoods by JFK a valid assassination theory?

Posted on 3/4/19 at 12:36 pm to
Posted by JPinLondon
not in London (currently NW Ohio)
Member since Nov 2006
7855 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

One thing about the JFK murder that I've always questioned was the refusal of the Secret Service/ Feds to allow an autopsy to be done in Dallas by the local coroner, following Dallas law. They scuttled the body back to DC for the autopsy to be done by military doctors.

Was there something about the autopsy findings that the Feds didn't want released?

This is an excellent, and common question. One of my biggest beefs, when I used to believe in a conspiracy.

The autopsy, by law, should have happened in Dallas. But the fact that it did not does not in any way prove anything. It is merely incidental information, that can mostly be chalked-up to the fog of war, in a manner of speaking.

Armed feds in suits and armed Dallas Police officers had a standoff... the President's brain pieces and skull fragments were still warm. And the locals lost.

The fact that it occurred that way can be easily understood, if you try to wrap your head around the magnitude of the event.

Do you think every action taken and every law enforcement order given during the first 72 hours of Katrina were 100% lawful? Of course not. But one can understand, if they try.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
84955 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

Honestly, give me your #1 "no way" observation.


A very simple one.

Oswald’s alleged crow’s nest was on the 6th floor of the Book Depository on the corner of Houston and Elm.

The motorcade would’ve been coming towards him on Houston Street before making the hairpin left onto Elm. A head-on shot with the target moving toward you is a far easier, cleaner shot to take than a shot fired at a target accelerating away from you.

I’m sure you’ll disagree and you have your reasons. That’s my Occam’s Razor takeaway however.
Posted by JPinLondon
not in London (currently NW Ohio)
Member since Nov 2006
7855 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

Oswald’s alleged crow’s nest was on the 6th floor of the Book Depository on the corner of Houston and Elm.

The motorcade would’ve been coming towards him on Houston Street before making the hairpin left onto Elm. A head-on shot with the target moving toward you is a far easier, cleaner shot to take than a shot fired at a target accelerating away from you.

I’m sure you’ll disagree and you have your reasons. That’s my Occam’s Razor takeaway however.

Actually, I agree with you. Based on my observations, you are 100% correct that the shot at the front end seemed easier than the ones he actually took.

But the problem with this thinking is almost "so what?" Its as if you have somehow found some golden nugget of absolute truth, when in fact, you have merely uncovered an almost incidental fact.

Maybe he wanted to shoot earlier, before the turn. But then maybe he cramped-up. Maybe he sneezed. Maybe a bird landed on the window sill.

Whatever the reason he waited... he was a good enough shot to have accomplished what he did, regardless:
- a miss
- a non-fatal hit
- a kill-shot
He completed his goal. That he didn't do it in the "easier" scenario... is all but an incidental point of fact.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
71018 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:07 pm to
The biggest thing that happened to make me wonder if there was in fact a conspiracy was Jack Ruby killing Oswald.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
84955 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

Its as if you have somehow found some golden nugget of absolute truth, when in fact, you have merely uncovered an almost incidental fact.


I’m not claiming to have “uncovered” anything. Others brought this point up long before I ever did. My own observations of the site just confirmed it.

I’m sorry. You don’t convince me.
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:15 pm to
Forget the JFK assassination. If Operation Northwoods was a real plan that would have gone forward if JFK had approved, then you have to question everything the government has told us since.
Posted by JPinLondon
not in London (currently NW Ohio)
Member since Nov 2006
7855 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

The biggest thing that happened to make me wonder if there was in fact a conspiracy was Jack Ruby killing Oswald.

Once I learned Jack Ruby's timeline that morning, I all but knew that Oswald acted alone. Really... Jack Ruby helps to destroy most conspiracy theories. His competency and his timeline are such that NO ONE in the CIA (or mafia, or Cuba. or USSR or anywhere) would hire him unless they wanted the whole thing fricked up.

Seriously, look into Ruby's timeline the morning of the killing of Oswald:
- heading downtown to pay one of his stripper's rent via Western Union
- bringing his beloved dog downtown, leaving it in car
- being AT Western Union AT the announced time of Oswald's "prisoner transfer"
- being heard asking "what's going on at the police station?" AFTER paying the Western Union

these are NOT the actions of some "silencer" hired by some all-powerful entity.

These facts are ignored by most conspiracy theorists. But why? They are beyond telling. Oswald acted alone, my friends.
Posted by JPinLondon
not in London (currently NW Ohio)
Member since Nov 2006
7855 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

I’m not claiming to have “uncovered” anything. Others brought this point up long before I ever did. My own observations of the site just confirmed it.

I’m sorry. You don’t convince me.

That's fine. This is a conversation, not a fight.

You said that Oswald not taking the shot "before the turn" was your #1 problem with the Dealy Plaza set-up. And I agreed that it was the better shot.

But it has been proven (ballistically, skill-wise, and time-wise) that the shots taken after the turn were quite plausible to end up with the scenario as listed in the Warren Commission.

So all I am saying is that your point that you cling to, which I am not accusing you of deriving.. just clinging to.. is that since it didn't happen in the easier scenario, thus it didn't happen.

I just see that as flawed. But interesting to discuss.
Posted by Mr. Misanthrope
Cloud 8
Member since Nov 2012
6085 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Is that report flawless? No. But the preponderance of the evidence shows it to absolute fall within the most likely sequence of events.

The preponderance of evidence and witness testimony the Commission used.

Some evidence and testimony either was not used or never followed up. Many witnesses, some on the street with the knoll either behind them or in front of them depending on what side of the street they were on, others on the overpass looking down and into the front of the motorcade, heard shot(s) from the knoll picket fence and saw smoke and smelled burnt gunpowder. One, a Korean War vet hit the deck and looked directly to where he heard the shots coming from on the knoll.

Blood mist and tissue blown back and hitting a motorcycle police escort trailing the Presidential limousine on the left rear has not been sufficiently explained IMO.

There may be other things. Though he's allegedly been identified and deposed, I'll always think the "Umbrella man" was a range marker and I'll never understand why Greer, the limousine driver slowed down so precipitously in what became the kill zone.

Who knows? We may never really know.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
84955 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

I just see that as flawed.


In theory, perhaps it is.

But again, going by Occam, it’s also the simplest explanation.
Posted by Violent Tally
Member since Aug 2014
1084 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:47 pm to
Trump or any other president could just release all of hidden info. But they won't. I wonder why?
Posted by JPinLondon
not in London (currently NW Ohio)
Member since Nov 2006
7855 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

In theory, perhaps it is.

But again, going by Occam, it’s also the simplest explanation.

I'm trying to see your point, really I am. Occam's Razor is such a good "predictor" of events that fall into the "70% likely vs. 30% likely.

But the "should have shot before the turn" is not such a great application of Occam's Razor.

Almost like 3rd and 1 from the two yard line, down by four, with 14 seconds left and one time-out remaining. You run it on 3rd down because you have the time-out, and pass it on 4th down. Or... do you pass it on 3rd down because they are expecting the run?

The human nature of an avowed communist, with sociopathic tendencies, on a perch 65 feet above downtown Dallas, with a president in his rifle-sight, approaching... its a place my mind cannot accurately replicate. And a place where Occam's Razor probably does not apply.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28107 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

but the NAZI for sure were into the occult, and did seances to try and get info to win the war.


then captain 'murica defeated the red skull and all was well.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28107 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

His political career was launched amidst incidences of suspicious 'suicides'


so....a Clinton.
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
70760 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

quote:
His political career was launched amidst incidences of suspicious 'suicides'



so....a Clinton.


And a democrat

Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
84955 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

I'm trying to see your point, really I am.


quote:

its a place my mind cannot accurately replicate.


That’s because you’re way overthinking it in an effort to justify your own conclusions.

Look, you asked me what my #1 reason for believing what I believe was. I gave you the simplest answer. You believe what you believe and I have my own beliefs on the subject. It’s that simple. Let’s just leave it at that.
This post was edited on 3/4/19 at 2:17 pm
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
70760 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 2:20 pm to
The main part of the op is the assassination as a reason by virtue of his not allowing this to happen. I am thankful he did not. The scrupulous nature of this operation and done by those entrusted with our government is unnerving but it is also truth. Makes you wonder what conditions would allow another operation to actually be implemented by the 'right' president.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28107 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

Or are you unfamiliar with his attempt on Major General Edwin Walker?


this is the confusing part.

Oswald is a sharpshooter. he shoots at Walker while walker is sitting in his dining room at a desk - stationary target. hits walker in his arm (was it), failed attempt. Kennedy, the moving target, gets a headshot kill, and gets multiple shots off in the process.

Posted by russellvillehog
Member since Apr 2016
9746 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 3:03 pm to
Something something 9/11 something something Tower 7. Something something bush.
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
70760 posts
Posted on 3/4/19 at 3:06 pm to
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