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Is it wrong to have your photo taken in front of Old Glory or Confederate flag? (long)

Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:10 am
Posted by jimdog
columbus, ga
Member since Dec 2012
6636 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:10 am
Since both parts of America participated in slavery and it began in the north primarily. And died out there first because the north was industry and not fit for rice and indigo growing. And since the idea of slavery began in Britain and France and the granting of large plantations to grow rice, indigo and probably hemp was mostly to sons of wealthy British (and French) is it wrong to wear apparel with the British icon. And fly that flag and the French flag. How about the original slave traders and catchers in the middle east and Africa, some still in business. And what about the Scot, Irish, but mostly England business owners and governments who enslaved and sent the original slaves to America who happened to be white. And the native American tribes who caught and sold native American slaves to rich people.

An argument can be made that the most put upon people in America were the Scots, Irish and British poor who were originally brought here as slaves then some as cannon fodder since many whites in the north wanted no part of fighting the civil war. Or settlement fodder early on with little chance of survival. The poor were put to work in sweat shops and industries in the north even as 9 year olds and many were killed or maimed. And the poor whites in the south who were manipulated into fighting basically 1300 wealthy families fight since they were desperate for a paycheck. And were compelled by the draft to fight against their own best interests. Many of whom were worse off than slaves. Since they had no idea how they were going to eat tomorrow and at least the slaves were being fed and housed and clothed. They were natural farmers and struggled to share crop because of slavery. In the short term the south losing the war was the best thing that ever happened since they now had value as share croppers. Before a slave had value and a poor white had none. The idea was floated at the beginning of the war to use slaves to fight but that was quickly shot down by the rich who owned them in favor of using poor whites to fight for their plantations. Simply because slaves were highly valued and poor whites had zero value.

Slavery was and is horrible. The worst thing coming out of people with power. Of all races. And the south is still negatively affected by the aftermath of it and the civil war economically, educationally and socially. And the poor blacks and whites in the south are still paying a price. Read Rick Bragg's "All over but the shoutin'" to see who most people in the south my age lived. The only thing worse than the south losing the civil war for the average white person in the south would have been for the south to have won it. Even with the vindictiveness of the sham called "reconstruction". Which lead to the ultimate hostility between the races as both were put into competition for survival. So when I see a Confederate flag I see a piece of cloth. A symbol of oppressed people, white and black to be sure but no more than the American flag. And I was raised to look at it (Confederate flag) as a symbol of pride. Which was more manipulation. It means nothing to me since we all are Americans, right or wrong. BTW I proudly served under the American flag back in the sixties but was still regularly and sarcastically reminded of "you rebels this and that" by ignorant whites and blacks. Frick 'em both. The black soldiers hung together and so did the southern white soldiers and there was a reason for that.
This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 3:23 pm
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98872 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:13 am to
Slavery was legal under the Stars and Stripes from 1776 through December 1865.

It was under the Stars and Bars for barely 4 years.
Posted by toosleaux
Stuck in Baton Rouge traffic
Member since Dec 2007
9213 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:14 am to
Posted by Dick Leverage
In The HizHouse
Member since Nov 2013
9000 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:14 am to
IN
Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
67488 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:16 am to
quote:

Slavery was and is horrible

BREAKING NEWS: Slavery has ended.........150 YEARS ago
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98872 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:18 am to
quote:

Slavery has ended.........150 YEARS ago


In the USA, yes.

Still in other parts of the world, but not practiced by whites so libs don't give a shite.
Posted by SSpaniel
Germantown
Member since Feb 2013
29658 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:31 am to
quote:

Is it wrong to have your photo taken in front of Old Glory or Confederate flag? (long)


It's wrong to do ANYTHING that might, in the future, offend even one person. Even though it's considered perfectly OK to do that thing today. We must have foresight and constantly be thinking "Will this EVER be wrong at some time in the future."

Your "precognition" must be 100% spot on perfect and infallible, as neither excuses nor apologies will be accepted. Forgiveness will not be possible.
This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 6:38 am
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:30 am to
Yeah it's pretty sad outside of the reenactment/history buff crowd
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:32 am to
quote:

Yeah it's pretty sad outside of the reenactment/history buff crowd


Ironic coming from a huge racist/anti-Semite like you.

Have you apologized for your anti-Semitic remarks on the board yet?
Posted by crewdepoo
Hogwarts
Member since Jan 2015
9604 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:33 am to
It’s trashy af nowadays. Maybe it was different for y’all in the 50s
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123945 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:36 am to
quote:

Yeah it's pretty sad outside of the reenactment/history buff crowd
So you're saying it depends on the context?



Posted by Tiger Prawn
Member since Dec 2016
21909 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:42 am to
TLDR
quote:

Is it wrong to have your photo taken in front of Old Glory or Confederate flag?
Only if you're a republican





This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 8:43 am
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:49 am to
quote:

The only thing worse than the south losing the civil war for the average white person in the south would have been for the south to have won it. Even with the vindictiveness of the sham called "reconstruction". Which lead to the ultimate hostility between the races as both were put into competition for survival. 


Whites southerners were basically lied too. They were told the war was to protect their families. And in a sense that was true. But the real reason was to protect the status quo and the Planter class.

That's what I dont understand about some posters. Yes, it was brave of your ancestors to battle for what they believed. Unfortunately, it was a bad cause. Not bad because of their courage, but bad because they were taken advantage of by the Planter class who ironically valued his slaves labor over their life.
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 8:58 am to
quote:


So you're saying it depends on the context?


Doesn't everything?
Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
39498 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 9:21 am to
Yep.
Perfect example:
Context 1: Kushner on a boat in the same body of water as another boat flying the confederate flag = Kushner is clearly a seething white supremecist.

Context 2: Northram and his buddy attend a party mockingly dressed as a negro and a klansman = Northram has done so much good, and we shouldn’t judge his choices from 30 years ago.

See? Context.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123945 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Doesn't everything?
Not necessarily.
But it's interesting you'd hold that permise.


Posted by Tommy Thompson
Member since Feb 2019
2 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 10:51 am to
Ok, long read, if you have short attention span you may want to move along.
I do not have my picture taken in front of confederate flag but feel this is semi related enough to that I created another user profile to post it. In my garage/shop I have hanging: US flag, USMC flag, Confederate flag, and Gadsden Flag,all in that order. My shop is clearly visible from the road but the flags are not visible from the road as I have 12' ceilings and the flags are hung from the 2x4 I have going around the ceiling to act as "crown molding". I'm in rural area, 15-20 min from small well known town and 50-60 min from large well known city. I'm in shop one day last fall and a lady pulls into my drive way to turn around. My drive way comes in from the road about 45' then Y's off, one leg to the house and one leg to the shop. Instead of pulling into the drive way far enough to back into the road to turn around, she pulls in my drive way up to the Y toward the shop and turns around in my drive way toward the house. I'm in shop with radio blaring and the two bay doors open and think, "oh well" when I see her. She turns around, leaves but then returns about 5-8 min later. She pulls in up to my shop, gets out and proceeds to "run her mouth" while I'm standing there with welding hood on since I was working on something wondering what the heck is going on. Se says her kid sees my flag (the confederate) and started crying (she is white and the kid in the car was around 6-8yo and mixed not that I could care less), the kid at his point was NOT crying and not sure if it ever was. She proceeds to run her mouth more and I try to remain calm so I stand there and keep quite. She finally stops and I ask her if she knew what the flags meant. She says yeah, your a racist MF'er". I say no and point to the flags, the US flag first and say "American by birth (point to US flag), Marine by choice (USMC flag), Southern by the grace of god (Confederate flag). She starts into a tirade again and I cut her off and say "oh, dont forget the Gadsden flag...... Dont tread on me". She says "are you one of those f'n gun nuts" I reply " I do practice my constitutional rights" and give a slight grin and slow nod". She turns flush, heads back to her car cussing even more, I have not said a single curse word at this point even though every fourth or sixth word she uses is one. She goes to get back into her car while still cussing me and I notice a honey bun or snack cake wrapper has come out of her car when she got out. She's getting back in and I tell her she left some trash and point to it, she proceeds to shoot me a straight finger. I firmly but calmly tell her again "pick up your trash" and I point to it. She gives me finger again and throws car in reverse, spins my gravel, goes partly into my yard at the Y toward the house, and spins out. I'm pissed but blow it off. About 30 min later a county deputy shows up. He pulls up to my shop and says a lady called in complaint that had racist flags flying and I had threatened her. I tell him what went on. He sort of blows me off that I had done something to her and should just take the flags down. I look at him and say "come here" and take him down to the end of my drive way and into the road and ask if he can see my flags where one would be when driving by. He admits "no", we walk up half way to the Y and I ask him again, he squats down to the level of someone in a car and admits again "no", we go up to the Y where she turned around and he can then see them. I ask him if I should bow down to someone on my land who had no respect for my property and was not invited? He kind of looks at me funny. I then point to two places she spun, tell him that was her, then point to the honey bun wrapper and say that was hers and I ask her twice to pick it up and her response was to flip me off and spin up my drive way and yard. He hee-haa's around and acts like I cant really prove she littered. I'm pissed at this point, he's still acting like I done something wrong and should take my flags down. I say "OK, how do I file a complaint against her, I ask her at least twice to pick her trash up and she spun up my yard. I have on camera me asking to pick up her trash and her spinning (I point to security cameras on shop). I tell him I have proof to back up my version of events. He looks at me in what I thought was surprise as I do not think he had not noticed the cameras yet. When I see his surprise look I sort of got cocky and said "if she comes and picks up her trash, I will drop the matter". He hee-haa's around more and tells me i'm making the situation worse and I say "stop, where are we at at this point? I've got video of events, I either want her to pick the trash up or I'm going to do what ever I need to do to file complaint and I will get the most expensive person I can find to give estimate to reseed yard and regrade the gravel". He says she is out at the school, she had met him there to give her report and she was going to stay there until he returned. He said he would go advise her of my request. I say "request hell, either she picks up the trash or I will do everything I can so she will pay someone to fix my yard and drive way". He starts walking that way and saying its just a wrapper, it looks like he is going to pick it up, I say "STOP, do not pick up the evidence, either she picks it up or she pays to fix the yard and drive way, she came on my property, cussed me and did not pick up her trash". He gives me a go to hell look like he now wants to cuss me out but nods once, says he'll be back in a few min and gets back into patrol car. About 10 min later she comes barreling down the road, pulls in with deputy following behind her and says "where's the dam trash?" I do not say a word and point to it. She says "That aint my damn trash", I say "yep, it's on camera coming out of your car and me asking you to pick it up twice" and I point to two of the cameras (I have four up outside the shop). She has a look of surprise as she also had not saw them earlier either. She does not say another word, picks up the wrapper, gets into her car, gives me the bird again as she leaves. The deputy sees her shooting me a bird and shakes his head "no" to her. She leaves and he then goes on that racial tensions are high right now, maybe I should take it down so there is no more trouble. I look at him and tell It's not viable from the road, why should I take it down then? " he replies "well, this could have been prevented". I quip back "It could also been prevented if she had not pulled all the way up to my shop to turn around". I then say "not that it's any of your business, but I had three members of my family tree in the civil war, one was my dads great great grandpa was killed then on my moms side of the family two were injured. If she had taken time to ask why I had it up I would have gladly broke out the scrap book my wife made up with my family tree and showed to her, instead she comes onto my property, jumps out of car, drops trash, and starts cussing me in front of her kid. What do you think is more traumatic to the kid, her mom cussing a stranger or some flags I have hung in my shop that you can not see from the road?" If she had ask, I could have told her some black coworkers that I get along with great and would gladly vouch that I treat them with nothing but respect. He finally says "I see your point", shakes my hand and goes to leave. Once in his car he rolls the window down and says "My wife family had people in the civil war also and......" he pauses, or rather stops as he does not finish his sentence and I'm not sure what he was going to add but he left.
Posted by Geauxboy
NW Arkansas
Member since Oct 2006
4856 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 10:54 am to
quote:

It's wrong to do ANYTHING that might, in the future, offend even one person. Even though it's considered perfectly OK to do that thing today. We must have foresight and constantly be thinking "Will this EVER be wrong at some time in the future."


I will enjoy watching this very thing bite today's progs in the arse in 10 years.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99093 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 10:54 am to
paragraphs, use them.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:00 am to
quote:

So you're saying it depends on the context? -------------------- Doesn't everything?


Sure does, sorta like this: You, BMY are an anti-Semite/racist who has made racist posts on this board, yet here you are on this thread trying to be a moral arbiter on the subject.

In this context, everything you say is null and void because you are a hypocrite.
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