re: Interesting how "Evangelicals" are separating themselves from "Protestants".

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I'm only speaking for why I think Protestantism will not go away, because it's based on the truth of Scripture, and those denominations that are not committed to Scripture will fall away while those that are still committed to Scripture will endure to the end.

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I know you are not of my denomination but I agree with you. The United Methodist Church is making a travesty of Scripture and our Global Methodist Church teach straight from the Bible. I think the United Methodist will finally lose its following because they are so out there. You should have seen some of the videos I watched of UMC during our discernment period before we voted to leave and join the Global.

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But it's funny how often a person can think he's doing the Lord's Work when in fact, he's attacking the Body of Christ by attacking a fellow Christian.

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This is my biggest issue. Growing up non-Catholic, all I heard was other denominations attack Catholics. My grandparents were Catholic and something always just drew me to their faith. I know it’s the Eucharist now. As a Catholic, I have not heard negativity about other faiths. We believe that we are all one body of faith. I believe that Jesus Christ is the way to heaven, I read my Bible, and the sacraments help strengthen my faith. I believe my non-Catholic family will be in heaven with me one day.
But I will say going to non-Catholic churches now feels somewhat empty. Like they try so hard with emotional music and passionate speakers. When I go to Catholic mass, I get to experience Jesus’ real presence. That’s the reason I’m Catholic. All the other philosophical debates people get worked up to me is irrelevant. Faith is faith and we will never fully understand all the mysteries of God on this side of heaven. But I trust that one day it will all be revealed.

Protestants want to give all my money to gays, immigrants, and trannys.

Evangelicals want to give all my money to Israel.

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But it's funny how often a person can think he's doing the Lord's Work when in fact, he's attacking the Body of Christ by attacking a fellow Christian.

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This is my biggest issue. Growing up non-Catholic, all I heard was other denominations attack Catholics...As a Catholic, I have not heard negativity about other faiths. We believe that we are all one body of faith.

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You should read some of your own church's documents, then. The Council of Trent says that I'm anathema because I believe in justification by faith alone, in addition to other doctrines that I believe the Scriptures teach.

While the post-Vatican II Catholics want to be thought of as warm, fuzzy, and accepting, they haven't repudiated the previous Councils that anathematized historic Protestantism.

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Here is a good long one from your two favorite Catholic apologists on idol worship.

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Thanks! 2.5 hours is a pretty long haul but I'll try to get through it.

As for the content, did you know that the Romans called Christians atheists? Do you know why?

As for Horn and Akin. There are times when our interests align. When that has happened, I find them to be quite capable. Where I part with them is when they try to defend Catholic specificities. They are clearly compromised on those topics. As I said, afaik, Akin has yet to answer the question I have been asking itt, as was asked of him in the James White debate. I find that utterly amateurish and obvious. Just say the church made all that stuff up and you're OK with it but stop pretending to be erudite on the topic. It's purely emotional and not academically objective

FTR, White is not my favorite as he's not a scholar but he does an acceptable job in that format.

Ortland and Cooper have done an outstanding job historically and theologically in their refutations and Akin/Horn are just not on their level of scholarship.

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Pints with Aquinas

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Yep. Another good one. Cheers!

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Pints with Aquinas
Yep. Another good one. Cheers!

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Thomistic institute is another good one if you haven't found that one yet.

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Here is a good long one from your two favorite Catholic apologists on idol worship.

Idols Rebutted (2023)

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I appreciate Ortlund's scholarly work, and his videos on icon veneration are good, in particular. I actually disagree with his view that Protestants can call Roman Catholics our brothers, as his appeals to Luther and Calvin on this issue are prior to the Council of Trent, where possibility of brotherhood went out the window with the condemnation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, according to historic Protestant theology. Even so, he does give Catholics a lot of grace and seeks to interact graciously with their teachings. I have a lot of respect for him and recommend him to others.

There is a lot to unpack and respond to in that video, but Gavin did a good job speaking for himself in this follow up response, but the only thing I'd add is this concept of sola scriptura that Akin mentions early on.

Historical Protestantism believes in sola scriptura, not solo scriptura, as Akin mentions (hopefully it was a miss-speak). The Scriptures are the only infallible rule for faith and life for the Christian and the final authority, but they are not the only authority, nor the only help for the faith and life of the Christian. Tradition is acceptable and good, and authorities like courts and councils are also good, but the question is what the final authority is, and that's Scripture alone. That's the essence of the doctrine.

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Your knowledge all the details and rules of religions is impressive. But I pray you don’t lose the forest for the trees. Kind of reminds me of the Pharisees during Jesus’ time. They could talk a good game about religion but missed the whole point of why he came. The truth is none of us are perfect and we all are in need of His saving grace- Catholics, evangelicals, Protestants, everyone.

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I appreciate the kind words and concern. I receive in the spirit it is clearly given.

I would say that I do understand that all are in need of God's saving grace through Jesus Christ. We all need the work of the Spirit in us for our salvation and sanctification, and I more than most, especially.

I have a lot of concerns with a lot of Christian denominations and non-denominational churches, but I can have a lot of differences and disagreements with them and still call them brothers, because what ultimately matters is the gospel of Jesus Christ that binds us together as one body.

The issue I have with Roman Catholics is their rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is absolutely fundamental to the faith. You can get a lot wrong, but you can't get the gospel wrong and still be a true church of Jesus Christ. When Trent anathematized justification by faith alone, that was it; they cut themselves off as a true branch of Christ's Church. And, given that Catholicism teaches that there is one apostolic deposit and that the Church merely grows in knowledge and clarity over time but doesn't change course, I don't see how Catholicism can come back from what she did nearly 500 years ago without changing fundamental teachings on succession and preservation of the truth.

It gives me no joy or pleasure to condemn Catholicism and seek to correct the errors of its teaching. I know many Catholics who are stand-up people and who do have a care for others, and yet they whole-heartedly embrace a false gospel. It breaks my heart, and I hope that the Lord would show mercy to them and draw them out as He has done to many others.

I do pray that God would give grace to both the lost and the found: to the one, that He would save them, and to the other, that He would continue to conform us more and more to the image of His Son.

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Even Jewish scholars recognized that and that's why they're called deuterocanonical books instead of canonical.

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Let’s look at Jews and their canon. The Sadducees and Samaritans only recognized the Pentateuch. Should you trim your Old Testament even more. I wouldn’t recommend this since neither of them are well treated in the New Testament.
The Essenes and their Dead Sea Scrolls contain what you reject.
The Greek speaking Jews outside of Palestine, had a translation in Greek called the Septuagint that contained your apocrypha.

I think you are ignoring these Jewish scholars, and are focusing on the dissidents of the Pharisees, who also aren’t treated well by our New Testament. The Rabbinic Jews did not compile the Masoretic Text until the 7th to 10th centuries A.D.. Coincidentally that’s even younger than Islam’s Quran.

And why appeal to what the descendants of Pharisees think is inspired when they reject the entirety of the New Testament???? And why use evidence dating back to Medieval times?

I’d rather consult the Septuagint and Dead Sea scrolls that predate Jesus for the Old Testament.

How about the Christian Bible as a whole?
1st Century AD: Various texts were circulated among early Christian communities, but no formal canon existed.
367 AD: Athanasius of Alexandria listed the 27 books that would become the New Testament canon in his Easter letter.
393 AD: The Synod of Hippo affirmed this list.
397 AD: The Councils of Carthage reaffirmed the New Testament canon.
382 AD: The Council of Rome, under Pope Damasus, officially compiled the 73-book canon, which includes both the Old and New Testaments.
Final Affirmation
1546 AD: The Council of Trent reaffirmed the canon in response to Protestant Reformation challenges.

Therefore for over a thousand years no one questioned the Canonicity of the Catholic Bible until Luther. Remember, Luther oscillated between rebellion and repentance multiple times.

Short version. Luther amputated the Bible to eliminate books that disagreed with his personal beliefs. Unless you wish to argue his infallibility, I’ll take over 1600 years of the Catholic Bible over the KJV that’s only 400 years old, and still printed your apocrypha for over 200 of those years.

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This is ahistorical propaganda fed to you by the church. The earliest Christians, BEFORE the "Catholic church" even existed, knew who the authors were because they were followers of the Apostles themselves. They had heard the oral stories first hand. So when their logia were written, they recognized the source.

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So you openly accept Early Christian Tradition over Sola Scripture!

The Early Christian Church was the Catholic/Orthodox Church. Unbroken Apostolic succession from the Apostles until today both East and West.

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I've already asked about quotes from Jesus or the Apostles that proves your point.

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You love this Straw Dog don’t you. How about this example of non-scriptural Tradition that 90% of Protestants believe: “public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.” Perhaps you aren’t one who accepts this Catholic Tradition and accepts the prophecy of the likes of Joseph Smith or Ellen G. White? If so, I’ll give you another example.