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re: If you want a good look at our broken health care system

Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:22 pm to
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:22 pm to
Medicaid has a pretty bad track record. Plus, rural America doesn't really use the insurance system yet. When I lived in rural Ohio, everyone paid out of pocket to the town doctor. It was cheap.
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
20946 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:22 pm to
I don't want to live in a country where we all have to pay for everybody's healthcare.

Eta: I know we do in some respects.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 2:23 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

I don't want to live in a country where we all have to pay for everybody's healthcare.
Considering 40% of working age adults do not work, it would be straight up theft.
Posted by Holden Caulfield
Hanging with J.D.
Member since May 2008
8308 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

Is getting a breast implant considered a medical need?

I could see it for women who have undergone a double mastectomy.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

This is why there are so many uninsured adults in Louisiana still - Bobby Jindal refused to expand Medicaid (and they will STILL vote Republican, can you fricking believe it)?
Why are you assuming they are Jindal voters, and why are you assuming that government is needed to bring these people insurance?
Posted by ocelot4ark
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2009
12458 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:51 pm to
Healthcare is a losing battle. I just don't think the demographic trends in the country will allow for healthcare to ever be a "personal decision" going forward.

But I find it appalling that we spend more money than any other country on healthcare and what we receive for that investment is not enough to cover everyone, nor lead to longer life expectancy.

Instead of living in a fantasy world, the GOP would do well to establish an alternative to Obamacare that's feasible for the next 100 years. I honestly don't know about the alternatives, but the old system was broken. The new system is broken. And while the idea of another government agency being created sounds atrocious, at this point I just want us to utilize the cheapest option that provides the most coverage for the most people.

Single payer has always sounded pretty reasonable to me but I understand that many people will immediately dismiss that option because the government would have to be involved. I just think those people lack the perspective to see that a healthcare system in the US that lacks government inclusion is a pipe dream. "Progressiveness" of the country will do nothing but escalate. Get out ahead and offer an alternative.

Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:53 pm to
If cheaper health care means less quality, I don't support it.
Posted by ocelot4ark
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2009
12458 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

If cheaper health care means less quality, I don't support it.



Most expensive doesn't mean best. I don't see how less expensive would definitely mean worse.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

Most expensive doesn't mean best. I don't see how less expensive would definitely mean worse.
True. What a lot of people don't get is that over 30% of Americans are on some form of government insurance already, and that the government spends 50% of every dollar that goes towards health. Per capita, American government health expenditures are fourth highest in the world.

Don't fall into the trap that government is the only solution. We are more alike than different when it comes to European health systems.
Posted by ocelot4ark
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2009
12458 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

Don't fall into the trap that government is the only solution. We are more alike than different when it comes to European health systems.



Can you suggest an alternative solution that will provide healthcare for everyone? Not that it's my personal belief, but the only belief that will win/allow one to compete in an election.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

Can you suggest an alternative solution that will provide healthcare for everyone?
First off, your premise is a bit false. Just because the government would control health care doesn't mean that everyone would get it. As a Canadian Supreme court decision said, "access to a waiting list is not access to healthcare". The British NHS and other "socialist" systems deny people care, too. After all, scarcity is unavoidable.


I think there should be a catastrophic plan available to all, and that we should go back to the days before world war 2 where people actually were consumers in the health care market, not the insurance market. If everybody started paying out of pocket, costs would eventually go down.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

I think there should be a catastrophic plan available to all, and that we should go back to the days before world war 2 where people actually were consumers in the health care market, not the insurance market. If everybody started paying out of pocket, costs would eventually go down.


This is what I think is the best solution. At the same time, there needs to be a way to address what hospitals are charging for services. When a hospital can get away with charging $25 for 2 Tylenol or $30 for a roll of gauze, there's a problem. I had surgery a couple of years ago and the final bill came to ~$20,000, and this was just for outpatient surgery. What they charged for some of the services was just ridiculous, but I didn't raise a stink because my insurance covered it 100%.
Posted by ocelot4ark
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2009
12458 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 3:58 pm to
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 4:04 pm to
To be completely honest, I am not entirely educated in hospital pricing mechanisms, although I assume the high prices are to make up for the lost reimbursement from people who are uninsured.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 4:10 pm to
Here's a lengthy article from TIME that gives some background on it. It's worth a read.

LINK
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:04 pm to
Just started reading, but right off the bat I notice that the article is about MD Anderson, the highest quality cancer hospital in the entire world.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111805 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

But I find it appalling that we spend more money than any other country on healthcare and what we receive for that investment is not enough to cover everyone, nor lead to longer life expectancy.


We basically have the same of better life expectancy as other developed countries if you take out car crashes and gun deaths. Add in the fact that we're a nation of fatties and you can see why life expectancy isn't the best measure of the quality of a healthcare system.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111805 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

To be completely honest, I am not entirely educated in hospital pricing mechanisms, although I assume the high prices are to make up for the lost reimbursement from people who are uninsured.


The uninsured isn't as big a problem as the left makes it out to be. And lawsuits aren't as big a problem as the right makes it out to be.

The biggest cost drivers are technology R&D and demand (expectations) of the patients.

Quick example. Kentucky has 26 medical helicopters. Canada has 20. Kentucky has 40k sq miles. Canada has 3.85M sq miles. Kentucky has 4.3M people. Canada has 34.8M people.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 5:29 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69501 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:24 pm to
The article is an eye-opener, but I am a bit turned off by the anti-profit theme. The author also neglected to mention that many of the expensive treatments people were getting are not available in other countries.
Posted by RadTiger
Member since Oct 2013
1121 posts
Posted on 7/8/14 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

I had surgery a couple of years ago and the final bill came to ~$20,000, and this was just for outpatient surgery.


What do you think is a fair price?
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