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If we ally with Russia, does that devalue the importance of Saudi Arabia etc?

Posted on 1/1/17 at 12:31 pm
Posted by JLivermore
Wendover
Member since Dec 2015
1676 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 12:31 pm
I realize there's a lot more nuance here, but what does Saudi Arabia offer us other than oil?

What weapons do they have if we don't play nice with them, compared to Russia?

Trying to figure out why we suck up to a paper tiger while saber rattling with the country that can destroy civilization in 2 minutes? What is their wild card?
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
25920 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 12:33 pm to
WWWMNCD

What would a war mongering neo con do?

Ask yourself that and it all makes sense
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24080 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 12:56 pm to
Saudi Arabia is second in money spent on DC lobbyists to Israel. Of any nation.

There's your answer.
Posted by Pax Regis
Alabama
Member since Sep 2007
14753 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 12:58 pm to
Yes. The Saudis' entire world relevance is hanging by a thread. They do not want to see us and Russia becoming simpatico.
Posted by Sat on San Jancito
Member since Dec 2016
80 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:05 pm to
You can trust the Saudis unlike the Russians

Russians have no concept of the truth
Saudis are not all the way trustworthy but much more than Russia
This post was edited on 1/1/17 at 1:06 pm
Posted by Boudin
Lafayette
Member since Oct 2006
10133 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

You can trust the Saudis unlike the Russians Russians have no concept of the truth Saudis are not all the way trustworthy but much more than Russia


The Twin Towers would suggest otherwise
Posted by dcbl
Good guys wear white hats.
Member since Sep 2013
31495 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

devalue the importance of Saudi Arabia


we can only hope
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85078 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:26 pm to
Right now our relationship with Saudi is more about maintaining the "correct" Sunni/Shia balance and regional stability than oil. Our relationship with Russia is far more complicated and equally duplicitous.
Posted by JLivermore
Wendover
Member since Dec 2015
1676 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:33 pm to
Thinking about it more is fascinating..all of these moving parts I could never come close to understanding.

For example, where does the EU fit into all of this? I don't think anyone really assumes that they could be a threat, in the long run. But if they got too powerful while Russia lost influence...I kinda do think they'd wanna push their weight around more and would contrive some BS "right" to do so. I like how it's easier to be able to tell the Russians "no" to that kind of stuff...their "we can't trust them" image works more to our favor in that regard. They can be our attack dog but never the King.



Posted by mahdragonz
Member since Jun 2013
7053 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:35 pm to
Russia will never be an ally.

Russia only cares about Russia.
Posted by Wally Sparks
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2013
32361 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

You can trust the Saudis unlike the Russians


Posted by Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
4079 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:43 pm to
Saudi Arabia is our eternal mortal enemy and the eternal mortal enemy of all non-Muslim infidels in the world. Since it didn't matter who we sided with during the first Gulf War, GWB's dad should have sided with Saddam in the first Gulf War because he was secular. If he had sided with Saddam as opposed to the Sunni Saudis, the heart of Sunni Islam would have been ripped out by Saddam. Then shortly thereafter, because Saddam still had an unfinished war against the Shi'as of Iran, the heart of Shi'a Islam would have been ripped out as well. GWB's incompetent dad, because he was the poodle of the House of Saud for his entire miserable life, missed the boat big time in the first Gulf War. Had he sided with Saddam as opposed to the House of Saud, there never would have been a 9/11, as Islam for all intents and purposes would have been dealt a very devastating blow by Saddam Hussein back in the First Gulf War. The Bush family is the biggest reason today why Islam constitutes such a gargantuan threat for the non-Muslim world today.
Posted by JLivermore
Wendover
Member since Dec 2015
1676 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

Right now our relationship with Saudi is more about maintaining the "correct" Sunni/Shia balance and regional stability than oil. Our relationship with Russia is far more complicated and equally duplicitous.


Learned something here, TY

In your opinion, is it feasible, at this point, to divide them based on Sunni/Shiite etc to they point they would fight and destroy each other as opposed to them uniting and focusing on the West?
This post was edited on 1/1/17 at 1:47 pm
Posted by Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
4079 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

Saudi Arabia is second in money spent on DC lobbyists to Israel. Of any nation.

There's your answer.


Actually loon, Israel doesn't even come close to spending the level of money the Saudis do to lobby our politicians. Give me a break. Your spewing nothing but anti-Jewish propaganda.
Posted by Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
4079 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 1:56 pm to
quote:

Right now our relationship with Saudi is more about maintaining the "correct" Sunni/Shia balance and regional stability than oil. Our relationship with Russia is far more complicated and equally duplicitous.


BS! Both Sunnis and Shi'as are our own eternal mortal enemies. Hence, our only solution is to separate our two fully incompatible civilizations from one another by expelling all the enemy Muslim invaders that have been imported into our our respective non-Muslim infidel countries by our corrupt and incompetent politicians while evacuating all non-Muslim infidels still living in the Islamic totalitarian world and relocating them to Europe as refugees. Then isolating the Islamic totalitarian world via the imposition of an international quarantine and an international embargo to make it impossible for the Islamic totalitarian world to be able continue to wage jihad against us and until such time as they eradicate Islam on their own from within their own society.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
85078 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

In your opinion, is it feasible, at this point, to divide them based on Sunni/Shiite etc to they point they would fight and destroy each other as opposed to them uniting and focusing on the West?


This is WAY over my pay grade. I just observe and comment, I don't plan Civilizational struggles. But one thing, you NEVER have to worry about is Sunni/Shia unification.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
25920 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 2:08 pm to
quote:

Actually loon, Israel doesn't even come close to spending the level of money the Saudis do to lobby our politicians. Give me a break. Your spewing nothing but anti-Jewish propaganda.


Look at it from a per capita basis
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

Trying to figure out why we suck up to a paper tiger while saber rattling with the country that can destroy civilization in 2 minutes? What is their wild card?


The ability to create manipulate scarcity in the world's oil markets is a pretty powerful economic tool, and it is the primary reason why the US is aligned with Saudi Arabia. Several key foreign nations are dependent on oil revenues, and the price of oil can have an outsized impact on authoritarian governments like Venezuela and Russia. The ability to work in conjunction with KSA and the rest of OPEC to manipulate prices is invaluable in putting serious economic pressure on these countries. Iran also falls into this category.

The US has a foreign policy that heavily emphasizes the concept of US hegemony across the planet, as was illustrated most concisely in the documents A clean break and Rebuilding America's Defenses.

These are neocon guidebooks that clearly illustrate the mentality of the federal government towards foreign policy. The US will use Diplomacy, Information (Intelligence operations and propaganda), military, and economic tools to get the results it wants. The people who work in the highest levels of our government are naive, arrogant, and merciless central planners who are wholly convinced of their own righteousness and infallibility. In their minds, the USG is just in using an Alliance with the evil state of KSA to out pressure on Iran or Russia, even if this results in widespread regional instability and enormous body counts. The perpetuation of an authoritarian, terrorism sponsoring, extremist Islamic government in Saudi is nothing to worry about according to these douche bags.

US policy makers almost unanimously believe that the fate of Israel is a responsibility of the USG, and Israel and the United States both oppose Iran's national and regional ambitions. Iran is not obedient to either the US or Israel, which threatens the US desire for hegemony. Conveniently, KSA also opposes Iran, as Iran is a legitimate economic competitor to KSA. KSA is a de facto ally of the west and Israel for as long as their ability to manipulate the market price of oil remains strong.

None of this has to be this way though because the US doesn't need to exercise universal hegemony, and it doesn't need to seek control over the price of oil, and it certainly doesn't need crude oil from KSA, nor need it oppose Iranian ambitions in the region, nor does it need to defend Israel. The US only creates liabilities by attempting to meddle in the world's affairs using force and coercion. Americans eventually eventually pay the price for this stupidity in the form of debt, endless wars, terrorism, and struggling economies. meanwhile the politicians, and their lobbyist pals, are enriched through all of these things.

This post was edited on 1/1/17 at 2:14 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69170 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 2:28 pm to
No. Our relationship with Saudi Arabia exists to provide Western Europe with a steady supply of oil. Russia and the U.S. each have enough natural gas to supply them, but not oil. A steady supply from saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and the UAE is still needed to keep energy affordable for them.
Posted by Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
4079 posts
Posted on 1/1/17 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

Look at it from a per capita basis


No matter how you look at it, Israel doesn't even come close to spending nearly as much cash the House of Saud does to vilify the Jews and to push Islam down our politicians respective incompetent throats.
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