re: If people start having serious long term side effects from the vaccine

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This article was published in 1999 - have you ever heard of a link between vaccines and diabetes?

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that is precisely the point of my OP. If there are long term side effects, how will we know? Can we rely on the government to be up front with us on that?

I think we all know the answer to that question...

This is a vaccine that changes your immune system. I just got done talking to one of my work colleagues who is an Indian guy who lives in Canada. He took the vaccine because he wanted to go visit his family in India, and the Canadiens were giving him all kinds of grief about getting back into the country if he wasn't vaccinated. He just found out that is thyroid has doubled in size - he had it tested because he began having problems with his voice after getting the vaccine. NOBODY will tell him that it has anything to do with the jab, but in his heart of heart, he knows... His treatment options are to have the gland removed or leave it as is and have it tested every 6 months or so.

Correct, I should have clarified that but I hate spelling "Haemophilus"

HiB is a bacterial infection that can cause things like meningitis, not viral flu.

Still, the point I was making is that this vaccine is still recommended by the CDC for all children under 2 and I have never heard mention of any long term link to diabetes. And the overall point of my post was that it is much more difficult to draw a clear link between a vaccine and long term adverse events as there are so many other potential causes in those intervening years that a vaccine becomes a needle in a haystack.

That link becomes even more difficult to find when there is a very small control group of people who have not received a particular vaccine. It doesn't mean there isn't (or that there is) a link, it's just that it becomes much more difficult to rule out other factors.

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So many people on this board are not acting like long term adverse effects are inevitable? Or is that you are trying to claim I have set it is not possible for there to be long term effects?

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This is a perfect example why we shouldn't force anyone to take the vaccine.

Most people believe the truth will be in between the two positions you posted. Severe side effects aren't inevitable for most people, nor is there zero risk. We don't know. It's okay to hold off a bit before deciding.

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Are the Covid vaccines single use? We will never have boosters? Every jab is an opportunity for a vaccine injury.

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Again, you're comparing two things that aren't like each other. A once a year booster shot isn't like taking a pill 365 times.

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Is there a cumulative effect? We won't know for years. That doesn't even take into effect the possibility for auto-immune diseases. The deadliest auto-immune diseases kill you very slowly and/or curtail your quality of life. That will never make it on a VAERS report. Someone who dies at sixty after their bones and intestines basically dissolve over many years is not going to be associated with a vaccine from 40 years before.

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You're reaching a bit here. Do you drink any type of carbonated beverage, or alcohol, or smoke anything? There are most likely things that are in your drinking water or the air you breathe that are bad for you too.

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To answer the last and next-to-last questions, we knew early on that this virus was much more deadly for certain people and more like influenza for the vast majority of people. Knowing that, should we have shut everything down, like we did? We should not have put millions of people out of work, IMO. We should have put all of the resources towards protecting those who were most vulnerable.

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I don't think we really knew that early on. You're looking at the past with the benefit of the knowledge we've collected over the past 18 months.

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Without direct links between the cause and effect in distinctly molecular and physiological terms, I'm skeptical of any major links between vaccination and autoimmune disorders

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It's always interesting to hear your insights and explanations.

Wondering if you believe there are ever times where research is not funded to answer a question for which there is no desire to learn the answer? I remember reading a published piece about SV-40 and a cancer connection from polio vaccine contamination in which the author stated that more research was needed but funding was lacking because it was controversial.

Would also love to know your thoughts on Geert Vanden Bossche and his theories on mass vaccinations.

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Again, you're comparing two things that aren't like each other. A once a year booster shot isn't like taking a pill 365 times.

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You're right it is nothing alike. A vaccine changes how your immune system functions. That is a big deal. If you start a medicine that has a bad side effect, you simply stop taking it. There is no undoing a vaccine. Can you see it from that point of view?

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Again, you're comparing two things that aren't like each other. A once a year booster shot isn't like taking a pill 365 times.

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You're right. Most drugs are designed to be flushed from your system within a matter of hours. If I find out that the drug I am currently taking is causing adverse side effects in some people, I can stop taking it - hopefully before permanent damage is done. The vaccine stays with you for years, if not a lifetime. I can't reverse it. What is the long term effe t to my immune system? Who knows? I can say this: If someone finds a correlation between these vaccines and AI diseases, they will be absolutely destroyed.

ETA: idsrdum has made this same point better than I did.

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You're reaching a bit here. Do you drink any type of carbonated beverage, or alcohol, or smoke anything? There are most likely things that are in your drinking water or the air you breathe that are bad for you too.

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Yes, and I eat and drink things that are probably bad for me. Nobody is forcing me to do that. Its my choice.

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I don't think we really knew that early on. You're looking at the past with the benefit of the knowledge we've collected over the past 18 months.

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We knew that very early on. The first major deadly outbreaks were in nursing homes. You can find articles going back to March of 2020 stating that the vast majority of deaths were over the age of 65

We also knew that people had asymptomatic cases very early in the game.

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vaccine manufacturers

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I think its funny the vaccine manufacturers think they won't get screwed by democrats by passing a law making them liable retroactively if the heat gets too hot for the politicians.

We'll be seeing commercials from Sokolov Law with 100% Free legal consultations for years.

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Science cannot yet explain the causes of autoimmune

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This isn't exactly true. We know quite a lot about it. Every human has autoreactive lymphocytes. We know there are two ways AI disease can develop, through failure to develop tolerance to self-antigens, and dysregulation of some part of the immune system that leads to loss of tolerance. We know that infectious agents can cause aberrant activation of tissue antigen-presenting cells which cause T-cell auto-reactivity, and there are several features of pathogen evasion, from molecular mimicry to superantigen activation, that provoke auto-reactive responses. We also know what genes are linked to autoimmune disease, and what HLA alleles are linked to autoimmune disease. We can even test for autoantibodies that are fairly specific for certain diseases. Suggesting that the adverse effects of vaccines will modulate an autoimmune route, as though it couldn't possibly modulate disease pathophysiology, is frankly a little weird.

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t has been proven that there is a link between the 2009 Pandemrix vaccine and Narcolepsy, but they can't exactly identify why.

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This link says otherwise? LINK

I will read your link later, but the writing style of the author is pretty annoying. I don't think they are a scientist writing for other scientists, looking at their publication record.

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So how can you be so certain that something similar could not possibly be happening with covid vaccines?

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Firstly, I'm just extremely skeptical that the long-term effects of the vaccine would be distinctly different from the long-term effects of natural infection. Secondly, the association with vaccines and long-term disease rarely ever plays out, and this has happened time and again, with every new vaccine. People don't remember the panic with the diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis vaccine in the 80s, but the accusations were similar. And vaccines with high injury rates tended to produce injury fairly quickly following injection. The notion that they will absolutely produce long-term effects at rates higher than they would exist in controls, as a surety, is something that has been offered as a caveat for vaccines before, and it really hasn't been proven to be the case.

Democrat playbook: Shift the blame