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Started By
Message
If all states awarded electors proportionally: Clinton wins by a single elector.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:26 pm
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:26 pm
270 - Clinton
267 - Trump
1 - McMullin
I hadn't seen this from anywhere previously, and I was curious what the result would be like if states awarded the electors proportional to the actual vote. I looked across the Internet and couldn't find any articles on this, so I performed the math myself.
I took each state's number of electors and divided this by 100 in order to determine what percentage of the vote any candidate would have to win in order to win an elector. That eliminated all 3rd party candidates except Evan McMullin in Utah, where he qualified for a single elector.
I used this as well as the percentage each won for each state and created a spread sheet to see how this would come out. I was surprised, not knowing the answer until the very end.
In order to make this work, I eliminated ties, and the candidate with the highest percentage of votes would receive at least 1 elector more than the next nearest candidate.
In some case, such as a state like Michigan, where the vote was so close, these ended up as ties. However, Michigan has 20 electors. In the tie, that would mean it was split 10:10 Trump:Clinton, but using the rule where one candidate had to be awarded at least one elector more than the next nearest candidate, that split is changed to 11:9 Trump:Clinton.
In the end, the deciding factor was Washington D.C.. Here, Clinton won all three electoral votes, as Trump only won 4.1% of the vote and didn't qualify for an elector. Had he won an elector here, then Hillary would not have won the 270 needed and the election would be sent to the House.
So, if anyone wants to argue for proportional allocation of electors, I would counter with the argument that if this was the system, the way candidates run would be completely different and could easily change the election's outcome.
Oh, and D.C. is a cesspool.
267 - Trump
1 - McMullin
I hadn't seen this from anywhere previously, and I was curious what the result would be like if states awarded the electors proportional to the actual vote. I looked across the Internet and couldn't find any articles on this, so I performed the math myself.
I took each state's number of electors and divided this by 100 in order to determine what percentage of the vote any candidate would have to win in order to win an elector. That eliminated all 3rd party candidates except Evan McMullin in Utah, where he qualified for a single elector.
I used this as well as the percentage each won for each state and created a spread sheet to see how this would come out. I was surprised, not knowing the answer until the very end.
In order to make this work, I eliminated ties, and the candidate with the highest percentage of votes would receive at least 1 elector more than the next nearest candidate.
In some case, such as a state like Michigan, where the vote was so close, these ended up as ties. However, Michigan has 20 electors. In the tie, that would mean it was split 10:10 Trump:Clinton, but using the rule where one candidate had to be awarded at least one elector more than the next nearest candidate, that split is changed to 11:9 Trump:Clinton.
In the end, the deciding factor was Washington D.C.. Here, Clinton won all three electoral votes, as Trump only won 4.1% of the vote and didn't qualify for an elector. Had he won an elector here, then Hillary would not have won the 270 needed and the election would be sent to the House.
So, if anyone wants to argue for proportional allocation of electors, I would counter with the argument that if this was the system, the way candidates run would be completely different and could easily change the election's outcome.
Oh, and D.C. is a cesspool.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:29 pm to HubbaBubba
If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his arse when he hopped.
Seriously, the EC is the only numbers game that matters. I'd be interested to see how the electors broke out if we didn't have winner-take-all states.
Nice analysis, though.
Seriously, the EC is the only numbers game that matters. I'd be interested to see how the electors broke out if we didn't have winner-take-all states.
Nice analysis, though.
This post was edited on 12/4/16 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:30 pm to HubbaBubba
I personally feel we should award each state one electoral vote each. That would cause presidential candidates to appeal to everyone as it should be. If you cannot win the majority of the sovereign states, you don't win the presidency. That simple.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:31 pm to HubbaBubba
The fairest "proportional" allocation would be by congressional district with the two remaining votes going to the popular vote winner in each state.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:33 pm to HubbaBubba
Highly doubtful
You would have to look at it by congressional districts.
Given that Republicans have more districts nationwide she would have lost. Electors are awarded out of the districts.
You would have to look at it by congressional districts.
Given that Republicans have more districts nationwide she would have lost. Electors are awarded out of the districts.
This post was edited on 12/4/16 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:33 pm to HubbaBubba
Curious… what is the difference between proportional EC votes and straight popular votes?
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:38 pm to Wally Sparks
quote:
The fairest "proportional" allocation would be by congressional district with the two remaining votes going to the popular vote winner in each state.
The fairest way to do it is however each State decides to do it.
It is a States right to make that decision not the Federal Governments.
It would require a constitutional amendment ratified by the states to force it any different than it is now.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:39 pm to SoulGlo
quote:The difference is exhibited by Evan McMullin, where a third party candidate can peel off an elector or two. Johnson, in the scenario I used, came awfully close to qualifying for an elector, and it would have negatively affected Hillary, again, throwing the election to the House.
Curious… what is the difference between proportional EC votes and straight popular votes?
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:42 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Curious… what is the difference between proportional EC votes and straight popular votes?
Every state has to have at least 3 electoral votes. Therefore, the smaller states have more voting power (electoral votes per capita).
If every state's population exceeded a certain threshold ([total population/538 electors]*3), the results would be the same, except for some potential rounding.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:43 pm to Loserman
quote:I'm sure you're right. I wonder if anyone had done the math to see what that would have come out to? I only worked up mine as a proportional allocation of electors.
Highly doubtful
You would have to look at it by congressional districts.
Given that Republicans have more districts nationwide she would have lost. Electors are awarded out of the districts.
*comment - not understanding the downvotes for running an experiment. Jeez, lighten up, guys.
This post was edited on 12/4/16 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:55 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:If NCAA football games were 60:01 long instead of 60mins, Les Miles would still be coaching in Baton Rouge
If all states awarded electors proportionally: Clinton wins by a single elector.
Posted on 12/4/16 at 11:57 pm to HubbaBubba
But if the elections were decided in that manner, it would be an entirely different campaign with different focus on different states and different results. Irrelevant based on the thpe of election that actually occurred.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:12 am to HubbaBubba
Don't the two states that do no use winner take all use Congressional Districts and it isn't a simple percentage distribution of EVs.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:21 am to doubleb
quote:
Don't the two states that do no use winner take all use Congressional Districts and it isn't a simple percentage distribution of EVs.
Is there a mathematical difference between this and a popular vote? If the state dishes out their electoral votes based on popular vote, say one side wins 64% and the other side wins 36% and there 10 electoral votes up for grabs and the first side gets 6.4 and the second side gets 3.6 isn't that simply a popular vote?
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:29 am to germandawg
quote:I suppose there's any number of ways to slice this up. I had a single question in mind when I ran the numbers. Proportional distribution of electors, no fractional votes (these are people voting, not parts of people) and the candidate with most votes in a state gets at least 1 more elector than the next nearest candidate, even if the vote difference is a single vote. That was how I ran the numbers.
Is there a mathematical difference between this and a popular vote? If the state dishes out their electoral votes based on popular vote, say one side wins 64% and the other side wins 36% and there 10 electoral votes up for grabs and the first side gets 6.4 and the second side gets 3.6 isn't that simply a popular vote?
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:31 am to HubbaBubba
If all states awarded electors proportionally: Trump campaigns accordingly and still wins.
Probably by a larger margin.(more bigly)
Probably by a larger margin.(more bigly)
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:41 am to Loserman
quote:
The fairest way to do it is however each State decides to do it.
It is a States right to make that decision not the Federal Governments.
It would require a constitutional amendment ratified by the states to force it any different than it is now.
I never said anything about the Feds mandating it, just the process in general.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:41 am to doubleb
quote:
Don't the two states that do no use winner take all use Congressional Districts and it isn't a simple percentage distribution of EVs.
Correct, with the statewide winner getting the two "Senate" EVs.
Posted on 12/5/16 at 7:44 am to germandawg
quote:Yes. Unlike a straight popular vote that just tallies each individual vote, giving each individual district one vote doesnt take into account voter turnout. If only 10,000 people turn out to vote in District 1, and 20,000 people vote in District 2, each gets the same amount of electoral votes regardless of number of votes cast.
Is there a mathematical difference between this and a popular vote?
This post was edited on 12/5/16 at 7:45 am
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