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Started By
Message
re: I wholeheartedly disagree with the Trump administration on getting rid of Net Neutrality
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:07 am to Centinel
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:07 am to Centinel
quote:Sorry, I meant to address that too, so here goes.
Which is why I posted the rest of my comment that you left out.
quote:Tell me, what is the difference between capping specific sites, and uncapping specific sites?
If ISPs started creating data caps for specific sites like Netflix, then I'd agree with you. But they haven't.
quote:Wow, way to completely deflect from the argument. Try it again... tell me how a car that can only manage to get you to work 1 day per month competes with one that gets you there every day?
A Ferrari will get me to work in half the time a Honda will. I'm still getting to work though.
quote:
It's a standard definition used across the industry. The FCC definition says 25MB/s down. LTE Mobile providers meet this standard.
Data caps or limits are irrelevant.
Man, you are persistent, I'll give you that much.
I will say it again: the FCC treats landline and mobile service differently. Its definition of broadband actually isn't even meant to apply to mobile service, as Pai only recently signaled that he wants mobile to be classified as broadband. How can you continue using the FCC's definition without even knowing the definition you keep "quoting"?
1
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:09 am to culsutiger
quote:
You can just admit that you're ignorant on the economics here. It's okay. People will respect you more for admitting your faults than for doubling down on stupidity.
If you have access to more than one internet service provider, how is that a monopoly?
The product is internet access. There is more than one provider of this product in 99% of this country.
If the product is available by more than one provider, how is it one provider only providing the product?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:09 am to ShortyRob
quote:Yeah, I'll ask again: what does this have to do with the discussion?
Um
People use mobile to access the net..........a LOT
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:10 am to PNW
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:48 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:13 am to Korkstand
quote:
Tell me, what is the difference between capping specific sites, and uncapping specific sites?
I don't know. Give me an example of this happening and I'll address it.
quote:
Wow, way to completely deflect from the argument. Try it again... tell me how a car that can only manage to get you to work 1 day per month competes with one that gets you there every day?
Wrong analogy. Both cars always get you to work. What you do at work is a separate topic. Some days I'm productive as hell and work a bunch of hours. Some days I frick off all day on TD.
My car still gets me to work. I still have access to work.
quote:
I will say it again: the FCC treats landline and mobile service differently.
Do mobile providers meet the FCC standard for broadband? yes or no?
quote:
Its definition of broadband actually isn't even meant to apply to mobile service, as Pai only recently signaled that he wants mobile to be classified as broadband.
Well then it's even all the more impressive that mobile providers meet the wired standard now isn't it?
quote:
How can you continue using the FCC's definition without even knowing the definition you keep "quoting"?
Because the definition is MB/s. Not how that MB/s is transmitted.
Which makes it a good standard to compare the two services.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:15 am to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:16 am to culsutiger
quote:
He has technical knowledge, but is wholly incapable of applying that knowledge.
I have technical knowledge, economic knowledge, and policy knowledge. And I'm combining said knowledge with logic.
Which is why most replies to me have been ad hominems, straw men, red herrings, moving the goal post, and damn near every other logical fallacy in the book
Not to mention outright ignoring of my pointed questions.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:17 am to culsutiger
quote:
Were you able to respond to your name by your first birthday?
Your mom responded to my name well enough.
Since you've obviously given up and are resorting to the OT playbook, I'll play along.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:18 am to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:19 am to Centinel
quote:
So now dictionary definitions aren't actual definitions in the real world?
In other words, you want words to mean what you think they should.
No, I want words to mean what they are intended to mean when we use them in actual real-life context.
You obviously know the dictionary definition, but to illustrate my point, let's see what the FTC has to say:
quote:
The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position
quote:
As a first step, courts ask if the firm has "monopoly power" in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices. Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident.
quote:
Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power.
So, surely since you so adamantly support the FCC's definition of broadband, you will extend the same to the FTC and its definition of "monopoly", right?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:20 am to culsutiger
quote:
You keep deploying debunked arguments.
Nope. You haven't debunked a single thing.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:24 am to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:24 am to Korkstand
quote:
No, I want words to mean what they are intended to mean when we use them in actual real-life context.
Monopoly has a very specific definition. Use it, not what you think it should mean.
quote:
The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. Most Section 2 claims involve the conduct of a firm with a leading market position
What is the definition of leading market position?
quote:
Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident.
But I thought wired ISPs had a better product compared to wireless?
quote:
that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors.
How do wired ISPs have the power to exclude wireless competitors? I'll give you the ability to exclude wired competitors due to state and local lobbying though.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:26 am to Centinel
"it's all broadband" isn't an answer, and you know it. As I and others have said, they aren't like products. They are unequal services. Why do you insist that they are? It's ludicrous.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:26 am to culsutiger
quote:
Hell, I'll be completely honest for a moment, I've just been making fun of you tonight to see what I could get away with.
No you haven't.
quote:
In doing so, I've exposed your dishonesty. Anyone that wants can go back and see how you lied out of your arse when deflecting away from ISPs as natural monopolies.
And when you say I haven't answered your question, I have. I did take a number of pages to do so. I knew that you were either too dumb to reason with or a lying piece of shite. You've proven yourself as the latter.
In conclusion, go frick yourself.
In the immortal words of the Poliboard....
Melt bitch.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:28 am to Centinel
quote:AT&T exempts their own DirecTV Now data from their data caps, giving their service an unfair advantage over competing streaming TV services. Address.
I don't know. Give me an example of this happening and I'll address it.
quote:Holy frick, again you deflect. I'll repeat: the goddamned mobile ISP can only provide you with HD video streaming for approximately 1% of the month. After that, your bandwidth is throttled and HD streaming is simply not possible. IT DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE. YOU ONLY GET TO WORK 1 DAY PER MONTH IN THE MOBILE ISP CAR. AFTERWARDS, YOUR MOBILE ISP CAR TRANSFORMS INTO A BICYCLE AND YOU CAN NO LONGER PERFORM SUCH TASKS AS TAKING SOME WORK BACK AND FORTH TO WORK.
Wrong analogy. Both cars always get you to work. What you do at work is a separate topic. Some days I'm productive as hell and work a bunch of hours. Some days I frick off all day on TD.
My car still gets me to work. I still have access to work.
ARE YOU GETTING THIS?!
quote:No, the FCC standards do not currently apply to mobile providers. And if they did, the would only qualify as broadband for ~1% of each billing period.
Do mobile providers meet the FCC standard for broadband? yes or no?
quote:No, it's not impressive at all that they can only meet this standard for ~1% of each billing period.
Well then it's even all the more impressive that mobile providers meet the wired standard now isn't it?
quote:It is absolutely not a good standard for comparison, because as I have hopefully driven home by now, the data cap is a HUGE factor in this definition. Data caps are THE reason mobile providers were not included in the definition, and there were discussions about how to include mobile providers in the definition of broadband that specifically addressed the problem of extremely limited data caps.
Because the definition is MB/s. Not how that MB/s is transmitted.
Which makes it a good standard to compare the two services.
What else do I have to say to get it through your thick skull that your argument is bunk?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:28 am to culsutiger
quote:
Hell, I'll be completely honest for a moment, I've just been making fun of you tonight to see what I could get away with.
In doing so, I've exposed your dishonesty. Anyone that wants can go back and see how you lied out of your arse when deflecting away from ISPs as natural monopolies.
And when you say I haven't answered your question, I have. I did take a number of pages to do so. I knew that you were either too dumb to reason with or a lying piece of shite. You've proven yourself as the latter.
In conclusion, go frick yourself.
I said it earlier, but the guy is either the most passionate and misguided shill ever, or he went down the path of arguing something idiotic and he has gone mad subconsciously being driven to keep defending it, or he is being paid for this(and really bad at his job).
If it is anything but the later, I feel more sorry for him than anything.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 12:29 am
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:28 am to RollTigers
quote:
"it's all broadband" isn't an answer, and you know it. As I and others have said, they aren't like products. They are unequal services. Why do you insist that they are? It's ludicrous.
I never said they were equal. However they both meet the definition of broadband internet access.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:32 am to bonhoeffer45
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 12:36 am to Korkstand
quote:
AT&T exempts their own DirecTV Now data from their data caps, giving their service an unfair advantage over competing streaming TV services. Address.
They own the content going over their lines. They don't have to pay the data transport fees Netflix does.
As I've said before, I'm all for having a discussion about whether ISPs should be forced to divest their media holdings using existing anti-trust regulation.
quote:
I'll repeat: the goddamned mobile ISP can only provide you with HD video streaming for approximately 1% of the month. After that, your bandwidth is throttled and HD streaming is simply not possible.
Pay for more data. And have a snickers Marsha.
quote:
No, the FCC standards do not currently apply to mobile providers. And if they did, the would only qualify as broadband for ~1% of each billing period.
Are mobile providers able to reach download speeds of 25MB/s? Yes or no? The FCC definition says nothing about data caps or rate limits.
quote:
No, it's not impressive at all that they can only meet this standard for ~1% of each billing period.
Buy more data.
quote:
It is absolutely not a good standard for comparison, because as I have hopefully driven home by now, the data cap is a HUGE factor in this definition
Pay for more data.
Fun fact: TMobile's data cap for unlimited is 50Gigs as of October. And then they only throttle you back in areas of high congestion.
It's almost like they have competition and are responding...
Almost like a monopoly doesn't exit for ISPs...
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