re: I want to hear from the Agnostics. What will the secular world eventually evolve into?

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First off, God’s main concern is man’s spiritual and not carnal needs. Secondly, you make judgements on God’s dealings without God’s complete understanding of man’s nature and his ability to know past, present and future and the ramifications of each act we commit. It’s like a first grader trying to understand String Theory.

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First off, how would you know what God’s main concern is?
That’s pure conjecture on your part.

Go ahead and justify owning someone as property at any time for any reason.
Go ahead and tell me how my daughter is a lesser person than any man.
Go right ahead and simplify it for me. I

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just because someone believes in a deity, definitely doesn't mean they have any sort of morality.

if you need to have belief in a deity to be moral, you were never moral in the first place.

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So religion, in it's more genuine form, is a process that urges one towards love and selflessness and empathy and humility.

I wonder, what process urges you in that direction? Is it politics. The democratic party?
Is the message you are getting about love? Is that what you are receiving?

People need guidance. Do you really want to live in a world where that guidance come from power hungry politicians or political think tanks, or controlled media, or megalomaniac billionaires.

Or is everything you need to become your best already inside you? I doubt that.

I always get the sense when talking to the anti religious that they are eaten up with pride and that they are not the kind of guy I would like to have a beer with.

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So, I set out to find my own reasons, good reasons to confirm my faith.

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Proverbs 14: 12 
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

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Go ahead and justify owning someone as property at any time for any reason.
Go ahead and tell me how my daughter is a lesser person than any man.

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How do you know your opinion is correct on those two judgment calls? Did Hollywood tell you you were? CNN? Or did your emotions somehow let you know slavery isn’t the correct order? If the strongest survive and rule, then slavery would be a natural fruit. In fact you are likely more a slave to those running our Government than you realize.

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religion, it it's more genuine form, is a process that urges one towards love and selflessness and empathy and humidity.

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This may indeed be true of the modern, idealized version of Christianity, but to assert that it is true of "religion" as a whole is ... disingenuous.

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Religion means nothing to someone who already has sound morals and judgement.

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Well, Quantum Theory would mean nothing to a Neanderthal; yet - and undeniably so - the Knowledge therein has innate power to transform the Neanderthal's life form that of hell to heaven. Depending of course, how an individual employs said Power.

Assumedly, 'Religion' is an 'Idea'; a form of Knowledge that is REAL Power to manipulate both Individual/Personal/Spiritual and Empirical/Worldly Reality. It is both ludicrous and suicidal to deny to both seek Knowledge/Power, and use it to go to 'heaven'. Spiritual/Personal and Worldly/Collective as well; as Human (Evolutionary) Nature is competitive in both a Worldly (Darwinian) sense...and a Spiritual (Egoic) sense even more so. As the 'Ideal' which 'Lucifer' posited as a potential "First Principle", is THE issue upon which an Individual and Collective fates are determined. Said 'Idea' being which ultimate Value one chooses to worship, I.e., the Value of Self...as opposed to the Value of The Whole (Love, universal version).

There is not a sane Agnostic sucking air that is NOT concerned and committed to making their 'tomorrow' at least as good or better than their personal existence today. And as Descartes pointed out..."I know that I am". God supposedly said the same thing..."I AM". Critical issue being...WHAT are you. What is the quality of life/being that one currently experiences, and what or how, or can one manipulate Knowledge to guarantee QOL.

Does Karma...apply. Is such a Universal Law of Knowledge? What 'Power' determines one's fate? If there is no self-aware and loving God present in the Universal Energy Reservoir Universal, then Randomness shapes today and the future, and justice is a joke. If the Reservoir of Universal Energy is Self Aware - I.e., an Entity described as God - then "the hairs on our heads are numbered", and Karma applies.

If God and Karma applies in determining ultimate Subjective Reality, and the limitations innate in the Creation of Individuals is factored in...then the interplay of both Lucifer's Idea of Self Worship (Evil?) will also apply. And what limited, imperfect Individual can think and will themselves into 'heaven', given their vulnerability to virtually unlimited Evil Power? Only a fool would venture going up against such a Power minus the help of an equal or more powerful Power.

The essence of Religion in today's argument comes down to one issue: Is Jesus who he said he was? Is he God's designated 'leader' and 'teacher' for the Human Family? And does Jesus have power to ALTER Karmic justice, I.e., "forgive sin". Because if He does, that changes EVERYTHING. And such is THE only issue that any sane individual would seek to understand/know, and employ to move up the QOL hierarchy.

Take a good look around, the see where one can end up. It's the 'buffet', on the table of potential life experience. Pick and choose, and employ Power to make one's personal 'heaven'...real. And in my opinion, it's binary...and either good luck...or Jesus' Mercy.

I know that I live over my just desert, as I am far from nor desire to be a 'Mother Teresa'; at least not yet. Thank you Jesus.


I would like to Edit to add to my description of Jesus, as also being "Savior" of Humanity. Not only Teacher and Leader, but "only begotten", The Absolute 'Guru' for Humanity. God in the mold of Man, for a specific Purpose.

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This may indeed be true of the modern, idealized version of Christianity, but to assert that it is true of "religion" as a whole is ... disingenuous.

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I’m sure you are aware that religion and Christianity are too separate things. Even though the two words are sometimes used synonymously, they shouldn’t.
Christianity is God’s offer of grace for salvation, apart from man’s abilities or contributions.
Religion is man’s attempt to reach God or Gods with some earthly manmade system or works.

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Lol

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So you think women aren’t innately gifted to be better caregivers for children than men?
Do you doubt men are more physically gifted and more suited to be protectors?

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If you need to be threatened with hell and damnation to do the right thing, then you’re a piece of sh*t

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Why should I have empathy?