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re: How can you possibly deny that healthcare is a human right?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:15 pm to Dale51
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:15 pm to Dale51
quote:
This is nonsense.
They are paid.
You can't be this dense.
Stop using this argument. It keeps giving him fuel to push his stupid fricking assertion.
I can get "assistance of counsel" by approaching an attorney to represent me. He or she is free to say no. If they agree, it is not by compulsion of the state, but by a free market exchange...services for compensation.
0
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:16 pm to Centinel
you refuse to explain how "assistance" is not the labor of another by deflecting with concerns about who pays who, which is beside the point, so I stopped responding to you
the presence or absence of the lawyer's wage and who covers it is irrelevant to the question of "assist" = labor
the presence or absence of the lawyer's wage and who covers it is irrelevant to the question of "assist" = labor
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:16 pm to tiggerthetooth
No one should get free healthcare off my dime!!! Screw that Socialist bullshite- get a freaking job & pay for your own insurance like the rest of us!
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:17 pm to TigerRad
quote:
It clearly guarantees a "right" to the labor of an attorney.
Not exactly, it presumes a willing attorney can be hired.
If no willing attorney can be found the defendant is released so that his right is not violated.
Got that?
Either the state gets the attorney so that his right is not violated, or case dismissed so that his right is not violated. Either way the right is preserved.
You can't do that with healthcare. If a doctor is not provided by the state, his right would be violated. There is no process for the state to deploy or stand down from to restore the citizens health.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:19 pm to TigerRad
quote:
you refuse to explain how "assistance" is not the labor of another
What does this have to do with *your* assertion that the Sixth Amendment requires the State to provide counsel?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:20 pm to Dale51
quote:
This is nonsense.
They are paid.
You can't be this dense.
wow
im pretty sure the doctors and nurses would be paid under bernies totalitarian nightmare plan too
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:20 pm to TigerRad
quote:
my only point is "assistance of counsel" is another's labor, and therefore the 6th undermines the logic of this thread
Correct.
You're brainwashed.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:23 pm to tiggerthetooth
You have the Human right to take care of yourself. If you get fat, smoke, don't exercise where is the Gov't's obligation to care for you compared to those that live healthy lifestyles?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:23 pm to TigerRad
quote:
beside the point
assist is still a verb
Not sure if it's been pointed out or not, but let me assist you.
Take the "L" already!
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:24 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
TrueTiger
ah now we're getting somewhere!
quote:
case dismissed so that his right is not violated
has this actually happened? honestly dont know
I do, however, know of attorneys that have been forced by judges to take shite work they didnt want. Are you saying they didnt actually have to?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:24 pm to SouthernHog
frick lying repubs
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:27 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Are you saying they didnt actually have to?
Slavery is a violation of the 13th Amendment.
No one except prisoners can be forced to work against their will.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:29 pm to CM Tiger83
quote:
You can’t have a right to someone else’s labor.
This.
A right has to be personally exercisable in its execution. This should be evident to all. Enforced healthcare provision is slavery.
OP is philosophically sophomoric.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:31 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
How can you possibly deny that healthcare is a human right?
Forced labor is wrong, even when you disguise it as a human right.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:32 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
No one except prisoners can be forced to work against their will.
if its true that judges cant force lawyers to represent people (for pay obviously) in places where PDs are not available, on the basis of the 6th amendment, then I concede the point and Ill go away.
(and also my lawyer friends have lied to me repeatedly
)
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:32 pm to TigerRad
The right to a defense is a right that only applies when the gov’t is attempting to take your other rights away. It’s a legal right, similar to the right to a fair and speedy trial which also requires other ppl’s time/labor (think jury duty). That’s different than the right to free speech, which is more akin to a natural right.
In my opinion, the only true right is the right to be left alone, which you have the right to exercise at will as long as you don’t impact anyone else’s right to be left alone.
The other rights are derived from that core right. The right to free speech—that’s just the right to be left alone to say whatever you want. Freedom of religion—that’s just the right to be left alone to practice whatever religion you want. Etc, etc.
When the gov’t alleges that you violated other ppl’s right to be left alone, they are obligated to provide you with legal rights before they take your right to be left alone away—namely, a right to a defense, a right to a fair and speedy trial, etc.
Another problem I have with the gov’t granting rights is that they can then take them away. As JFK said, “the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
In my opinion, the only true right is the right to be left alone, which you have the right to exercise at will as long as you don’t impact anyone else’s right to be left alone.
The other rights are derived from that core right. The right to free speech—that’s just the right to be left alone to say whatever you want. Freedom of religion—that’s just the right to be left alone to practice whatever religion you want. Etc, etc.
When the gov’t alleges that you violated other ppl’s right to be left alone, they are obligated to provide you with legal rights before they take your right to be left alone away—namely, a right to a defense, a right to a fair and speedy trial, etc.
Another problem I have with the gov’t granting rights is that they can then take them away. As JFK said, “the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:33 pm to Centinel
*responded to wrong post*
This post was edited on 2/5/20 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:33 pm to tiggerthetooth
How could you possibly deny that an unborn baby has a right to life?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:33 pm to tiggerthetooth
Which country on that pic is the country the rest of the countries wealthy go to when they need a complex surgery or don’t want to wait a year + for a hip replacement?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:35 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:it is your human right to take care of your health..... it isnt the responsibility of the government to pay for it.
How can you possibly deny that healthcare is a human right?
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