re: Has anyone considered that this execution debacle could be God's will?

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Yet again, you are merely sharing your personal opinion and not making an objective judgement

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Dude you think babies… babies are born evil and deserve to be brutally murdered - sorry… “killed violently”… if their parents were worshipping other deities. You don’t support baby murder, because murder is unjustified killing, and you think killing of babies can be justified. You are pro-death, not pro-life. What I just wrote is objective verifiable fact.

That I think you’re a sick frick is my opinion, sure, but the consensus of good people would be that infanticide is supported only by sick individuals.

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because your worldview renders you incapable of doing so

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So does yours.

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All your atheism allows for is personal, subjective opinions and preferences.

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Yes but it’s based on maximizing happiness and wellbeing while minimizing suffering.

Your delusions drive your morality not based on any objective standards but based on what you think your imaginary deity would want under the circumstance. There just isn’t any consistent non-contradictory objective moral standard contained in the Bible, even if your deity really existed.

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but I think you're sick for rejecting your Creator

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Impossible for me to reject that which its existence isn’t evident.

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I don't care what you think; your worldview makes you irrational.

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Says the guy who literally believes in magic and ancient mythology with no basis in reality.

ETA: you think those Midianite and Canaanite babies should have been violently slaughtered by the sword because their parents…
- sacrificed their children
- committed incest
- had ritual prostitution
- and of course… worshipped other deities

And of course these are all things the Israelites were guilty of. Abraham married his sister. They had ritual prostitution that the Bible admits when Josiah had to do away with the temple prostitution. And even the Bible says every Israelite king and Judahite king (save for Hezekiah and Josiah) worshipped the hosts of heavens.

But those Canaanite and Midianites they were so depraved…. Worshipping all those other detestable abominations of gods…

That El Elyon set them up to worship!

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And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

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8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. 9But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

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So you’ve got to imagine God divided the peoples and gave each of them a god to worship as patron deity from the hosts of heavens, and then declared the peoples guilty of worshipping the very gods he apportioned to the nations to justify the violent slaughter of babies.

It’s just sick. And you’re an idiot for believing in it. All the other Christians on this site are simply uninformed and unaware because they haven’t actually studied the Bible and ancient history but you should know better.

As a guy, more conservative than most people on here, I was pro death sentence until about 15 years ago. Then I got updated info. I saw, MANY, MANY, MANY people getting off death row because of DNA, not just one or two (too many still). So, when you have juries condemning innocent people to death and in many cases scum prosecutors held back esculpatory evidence. So, in my mind, we cant put people to death anymore when innocent people are being wrongly convicted.

And here is why it is a STUPID IDEA anyway, these guys get to appeal for 25-30 years, gumming up our courts, costing us MILLIONS of dollars and if the committed the crime at 30 they will be 60 when the sentence is passed unto judgment via death. Most will not live another 10-20 years on average anyway. Its just a waste of time, they still live 20 to 25 years they basically live their whole life anyway.

Lastly, I think God sees every human as filthy rags, you and I are all wicked at heart, God says so, so dont call me a liar. We all deserve hell. so who are we do say anything about another persons life, the death sentence guy may make heaven whilst the self righteous makes hell. The only righteousness we have is the blood of Jesus. Anything else is just material filth or pride.

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Dude you think babies… babies are born evil and deserve to be brutally murdered - sorry… “killed violently”… if their parents were worshipping other deities. You don’t support baby murder, because murder is unjustified killing, and you think killing of babies can be justified. You are pro-death, not pro-life. What I just wrote is objective verifiable fact.

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You are a liar, constantly twisting the truth.

I already explained that there is a difference between spiritual guilt and civil guilt. God is the Judge of the heart and He is the Creator that condemned sin and sinners. Humans have no such right to take on that role outside of what God's Word commands, and God's Word does not command killing children for the sins of their parents. You are conflating two different concepts for the sake of an emotional argument. It's easier to say that I support killing children (when I don't) than to deal with my actual position, because you are a liar.

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That I think you’re a sick frick is my opinion, sure, but the consensus of good people would be that infanticide is supported only by sick individuals.

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I don't buy into emotional statements like this, not grounded in reason. It's something children do. You are sick because you pervert the truth. You are irrational and have no intellectual and logical grounding for your own position, so you resort to name-calling and trying to tug on people's emotions rather than engage with arguments.

I'll say it again: your position is morally indefensible. You reject God and therefore you have to accept that killing children is morally permissible if not morally "good", because morality is determined by consensus, and consensus can see it as morally good. You have no objective moral rationale for why murdering children is bad, and all you have is your own opinion, which doesn't matter.

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So does yours.

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No, my worldview provides objective rationale for why humans should not murder each other. We are made in the image of God and belong to God, and we have no right to act against each other in a way that goes against God's law. That law applies equally to all people, and we have no right to arbitrarily change that law because a majority of people want it, like what happens in your worldview. You have no objective law that "murder" is wrong. You might personally not like it, but that's all you've got.

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Yes but it’s based on maximizing happiness and wellbeing while minimizing suffering.

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That's an arbitrary standard. It could just as easily be something different, such as maximizing suffering and minimizing happiness and well-being. All it takes is a majority of the people doing that, such as what the Nazi's did to the Jews. Your position means you couldn't meaningfully condemn anything at all as immoral. It's just your opinion.

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Your delusions drive your morality not based on any objective standards but based on what you think your imaginary deity would want under the circumstance. There just isn’t any consistent non-contradictory objective moral standard contained in the Bible, even if your deity really existed.

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No, God does exist and His perfect and moral character provides the basis for objective morality, as expressed by the 10 commandments.

And no, it doesn't contradict. You just fail to understand the difference between what God has the authority to do and what humans have the authority to do on their own.

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Impossible for me to reject that which its existence isn’t evident.

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There's a difference between evidence and persuasion. You aren't persuaded by the evidence, but you also reject that Jesus was a historical person, which most atheists even concede. So I don't really care about your opinion about the reasonableness of God when you are an unreasonable person. Your worldview is evident of that.

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Says the guy who literally believes in magic and ancient mythology with no basis in reality.

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You have to exaggerate and say untruths because you don't have the truth on your side.

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ETA: you think those Midianite and Canaanite babies should have been violently slaughtered by the sword because their parents…
- sacrificed their children
- committed incest
- had ritual prostitution
- and of course… worshipped other deities

And of course these are all things the Israelites were guilty of. Abraham married his sister. They had ritual prostitution that the Bible admits when Josiah had to do away with the temple prostitution. And even the Bible says every Israelite king and Judahite king (save for Hezekiah and Josiah) worshipped the hosts of heavens.

But those Canaanite and Midianites they were so depraved…. Worshipping all those other detestable abominations of gods…

That El Elyon set them up to worship!

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All of us deserve the same fate. The only reason we don't get it is because of God's mercy. His justice is still there, though, which is why if you do not turn from your wickedness and worship the one, true, and living God, you will be destroyed in Hell. I don't want that for you, in spite of your constant lies, attacks on the truth, and intellectual dishonesty.

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So you’ve got to imagine God divided the peoples and gave each of them a god to worship as patron deity from the hosts of heavens, and then declared the peoples guilty of worshipping the very gods he apportioned to the nations to justify the violent slaughter of babies.

It’s just sick. And you’re an idiot for believing in it. All the other Christians on this site are simply uninformed and unaware because they haven’t actually studied the Bible and ancient history but you should know better.

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God punishes sin, plain and simple. He does so in the sinner, or in the sinless one, Jesus Christ, whom was sent to obey the law perfectly and died as a ransom for sinners like you and me. He was raised from the dead and now sits in judgement in Heaven. You will be judged by Him if you do not repent of your wickedness.

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FooManChoo

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Clown

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God is not the author of confusion.

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True, but all that happens is His will. Perhaps we are the ones who were/are confused in this situation.

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I've only supported the right for God to do as He wills according to His justice. He is not evil. Your willful ignorance doesn't change that.

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You supported and continue to support and promote the idea that babies are sinful and have deserved God’s justice including being brutally murdered… in the past. Fact. You have supported this in this very thread.

Of course you know in Isaiah 45:7 your deity says he is responsible for everything including all good and evil in his boast of his greatness and power.

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You keep saying that means I'm in favor of killing innocent children. It doesn't.

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You are in favor of the historical killing of children and babies in the past because you say those babies weren’t innocent and it was justified in killing them.

If it was objectively morally permissible to kill “guilty” babies back then, then it ought to still be objectively moral to do it again today, unless you want to change your argument on moral objectivity. That’s why I’m arguing you supported and have to still support killing babies. You are pro-death.

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I didn't say that God didn't command the killing of entire peoples and families for sin-guilt, which is what you are describing. What I said is that God's Word (the Bible) doesn't command the killing of children for what the parents did. I thought that was clear from the context of what I said.

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Your deity literally commanded the Israelites to stone the children of Achan - children who had not committed the sin. If your deity is setting an example, and if your objective morality is objective and unchanging, then you support killing children for their parents’ crimes.

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You, again, twisted my words to say something that wasn't said. There is no command by God's Word (the Bible) that people needs to follow that states that children are to be put to death for the sins of their parents, like I said. I can't read the Bible to apply it to my life and find a command that I am to kill my neighbor's children because of something their parents did. Try again.

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There is no command “thou shalt kill the children of one who commits sin”. But if we are to use examples of the types of things your deity commanded people in the Bible to do, and if those actions are objectively “good” because God commanded it, then we have to admit that God’s “good” actions set an example for what we are supposed to do. Yahweh told David he needed to impale 7 innocent sons of Saul because of Saul’s sin, and Yahweh accepted that atonement (or sacrifice) of the 7 sons of Saul impaled on a mountain to end a famine.

Quit talking out the side of your neck.

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Ah yes, "projection". One of your favorite words to use when you don't know what you're talking about.

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More projection. You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. And then you accuse me of your transgression. You’d make a great Democrat politician.

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You supported and continue to support and promote the idea that babies are sinful and have deserved God’s justice including being brutally murdered… in the past. Fact. You have supported this in this very thread.

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All people deserve eternal judgment, which includes suffering for eternity. That’s far worse than being “brutally murdered”.

It is God’s prerogative to end the lives of His creations as He chooses. He can use means like humans to do that. However, that is very different than humans taking the initiative to destroy God’s creations. That’s murder, and against God’s law.

Murder is the unlawful taking of human life. If God commands it, it is not murder. If He doesn’t command it, then it is murder. The distinction matters, and you conflate the two be again and again in spite of correction because you are dishonest as don’t care about the truth.

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Of course you know in Isaiah 45:7 your deity says he is responsible for everything including all good and evil in his boast of his greatness and power.

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Yes, meaning He is sovereign over all things. There is nothing outside His control. However, God does not perform evil. He tolerates evil for a greater good.

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You are in favor of the historical killing of children and babies in the past because you say those babies weren’t innocent and it was justified in killing them.

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Again, I recognize the prerogative for God to destroy His property if He chooses. I don’t support murder, which is when one human being destroys another human being (God’s property) without divine permission. That’s important, because if you don’t acknowledge that point, you could conclude that killing is generally permissible, as you seem to be attempting to (wrongfully) argue.

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If it was objectively morally permissible to kill “guilty” babies back then, then it ought to still be objectively moral to do it again today, unless you want to change your argument on moral objectivity. That’s why I’m arguing you supported and have to still support killing babies. You are pro-death.

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Your lack of distinction here is where you are being dishonest. You think objective morality means any action that is permissible should be broadly permissible in other contexts.

Humans murdering babies is not objectively morally permissible because we have no divine right or authority to do so.

Think of it like this: it is legally permissible—and I would argue morally good—for the civil magistrate to justly execute rapists and murderers. It is not legally permissible for a citizen to take justice into their own hands and kill rapists and murderers. The end result is the same, but one has the legal and moral authority to kill while the other doesn’t. The “objective” rule in this matter is that it is moral to lawfully take life.

God has the lawful right to destroy, and He can deputize people to perform the destruction lawfully according to His direct command. People who are not deputized cannot destroy on their own authority. That’s the difference.

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Your deity literally commanded the Israelites to stone the children of Achan - children who had not committed the sin. If your deity is setting an example, and if your objective morality is objective and unchanging, then you support killing children for their parents’ crimes.

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You are still conflating sin-guilt (which everyone has) with civil guilt in the eyes of man.

There is no example to follow because humans have no authority to judge others for sin-guilt and can only act as God allows or commands based on civil guilt.

Notice in the example you provided that it was God, not Joshua or another person that gave the final judgement and command. That actually matters.

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There is no command “thou shalt kill the children of one who commits sin”.

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Thank you. Now stop acting like there is.

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But if we are to use examples of the types of things your deity commanded people in the Bible to do, and if those actions are objectively “good” because God commanded it, then we have to admit that God’s “good” actions set an example for what we are supposed to do. Yahweh told David he needed to impale 7 innocent sons of Saul because of Saul’s sin, and Yahweh accepted that atonement (or sacrifice) of the 7 sons of Saul impaled on a mountain to end a famine.

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See above. God commanding something specific as a one-off punishment based on His omniscient justice and holiness is not to be viewed as an example for all people to emulate. The Father sent the Son to die for sins. We are not to use that as an example to try to be sacrifices for sin-guilt. Not everything God does is an example to follow. He is God and we are not.

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More projection. You don’t know wtf you’re talking about. And then you accuse me of your transgression. You’d make a great Democrat politician.

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not everything someone says about you is projection. Sometimes it is just observation based on many interactions, like what’s happening here.

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It is simply something to consider.

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Not at all. She should have died decades ago.

I'm upset that they aren't going to hang this guy by his balls and then let him dangle there for a few hours and then take him out