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Gun Ownership Rates And Gun Control Laws Don't Have Much Bearing On Gun Homicide Rate

Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:42 pm
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:42 pm
David Freddoso: Washington Examiner

quote:

I spent part of my holiday going back over the (relatively) new 2016 FBI crime numbers for a few minutes. There is one data set that I've been following for several years now — the number of gun homicides in each of the 50 states. It continues to confound most people's assumptions about guns and gun crime.


quote:

I looked a few years ago at the absence of a correlation between gun ownership and gun crime in 2014. As surprising as it might sound, neither higher gun ownership rates in a state nor varied attitudes toward gun policy seem to correspond with more gun murders (or even with more gun robberies). This was still true in 2015 and now in 2016 as well. In the graph that follows, each dot is a state, plotted for gun homicide rate and gun ownership rate in 2016. The correlation here is too small to be statistically significant.




quote:

On the chart below, you'll notice a number of states with little in common in terms of gun policy are neighbors when it comes to gun murder rates. (Note also that Florida and Alabama are omitted from all of these charts — those two states seem to flout FBI reporting perennially.)




quote:

Here's an example of what I mean: It really says something that in 2015, Texas, where any sane non-felon can attend church on Sunday with a rifle strapped to his body and then carry it across the street into his local Starbucks without a permit (please don't do this), had a nearly identical gun homicide rate as California, where such behavior would get you arrested instantly and perhaps sent to Gitmo or worse. Similar pairings of disparate states can be found between restrictive Maryland and permissive Georgia, restrictive Massachusetts and permissive Utah, and others.


quote:

In 2016, the numbers varied a bit, but the story was similar. States with extremely permissive gun laws like Idaho, North Dakota, and Vermont shared similar low rates of gun murder with very restrictive states like Massachusetts and Rhode Island. At the other end of the chart, restrictive Illinois and permissive South Carolina; restrictive Maryland and permissive Tennessee shared similar and disturbingly high rates of gun homicide. New Jersey, where out-of-state drivers are sometimes arrested for having their guns anywhere in their own cars, is roughly comparable to Wisconsin, a permissive concealed-carry state where you can carry your gun on the city bus and no one can tell you otherwise.


quote:

Beyond just the idea that criminals don't follow gun control laws, the main problem is that the law is rarely a good preventative. Gun laws are primarily used after the fact to pile up longer sentences upon known (or suspected) criminals who get caught with guns. They are rarely used in a way that prevents mass shootings or common gun crime. Even when it comes to illegal purchases — one area of the law that should serve as a clear preventative — the federal government has been famously loath to prosecute known violators.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140540 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:44 pm to
Gun crimes are a culture problem not a gun ownership problem.
Posted by Rougarou13
Brookhaven MS
Member since Feb 2015
6839 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

It really says something that in 2015, Texas, where any sane non-felon can attend church on Sunday with a rifle strapped to his body and then carry it across the street into his local Starbucks without a permit (please don't do this), had a nearly identical gun homicide rate as California, where such behavior would get you arrested instantly and perhaps sent to Gitmo or worse


So what you’re saying is that gun control doesn’t make a damn bit of difference?
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:55 pm to
There are two states, Hawaii and Alaska, where it is extremely difficult to bring a gun across state lines. Hawaii, with tough gun laws, is well below any other state. Alaska, which is very permissive, has one of the highest rates.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
16581 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:01 pm to
Alaska has some of the highest suicide rates of any US state. Amazing how uneducated and dishonest you are...
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

Alaska has some of the highest suicide rates of any US state.
The rates in the OP are murder rates.
Posted by Shenanigans
Spring Hill, TN
Member since Nov 2012
2394 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:03 pm to
Can we remove Memphis from the Tennessee stats and see where it stands then? It’s not really part of the state anyway.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:03 pm to
In Alaska's "defense", the state is a haven for total nutjob hermits.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21908 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:04 pm to


Zero gun ownership means zero gun homicides.

Posted by CDawson
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2017
16417 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:08 pm to
quote:

Zero gun ownership means zero gun homicides.


And free food for all means no hunger. Just ask Venezuela.

If only we could all live in Utopia.
Posted by Bison
Truth or Consequences
Member since Dec 2016
1236 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:09 pm to
Hmm. That’s false. Look up how much gun related violence happens in China.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:17 pm to
quote:

Look up how much gun related violence happens in China.


Yeah, we can really trust Chinese statistics. And in any case, we're not talking about fricking red China, we're talking about America.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:19 pm to
quote:

Zero gun ownership means zero gun homicides.


Yeah, but until that happens, I would like a gun if bad guys are gonna have guns.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
16581 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

The rates in the OP are murder rates.


That isn't the point child, the point involves the well known correlations between suicide and homicides. As stated, you are incredibly uneducated here and you will labor to prove the accuracy of that statement everytime a thread like this is posted. Note that Vermont and Louisiana are both extremely permissive in terms of firearms (sharing virtually identical ownership rates) and are at extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to firears-related homicides. Lax guns laws, identical ownership rates, different outcomes. I doubt you have the honesty to address the root cause of why the outcomes are so different.
Posted by tommy2tone1999
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6776 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:33 pm to
quote:

Look up how much gun related violence happens in China.



They sure do love their knives though. So, if the guns aren't there and the violence is committed by a knife, was it the presence of the gun, or the intent of the attacker?
Posted by tommy2tone1999
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6776 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

Zero gun ownership means zero gun homicides.


So then, zero automobiles means zero automobile-related deaths. How's that gonna workout for you in your daily life?
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67959 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:41 pm to
It's not whether or not people have guns,

It's whether or not you have good people.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

It's whether or not you have good people.


Well, people suck, so I'll go fish out that S&W M&P out of the bottom of the lake that my boat sunk in with my guns in it unfortunately.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21908 posts
Posted on 1/11/18 at 2:59 am to
quote:

Zero gun ownership means zero gun homicides.


quote:

Yeah, but until that happens, I would like a gun if bad guys are gonna have guns.


Oh I agree with you.

I just hate to see obviously false points made like this thread is making.

I also don't care if a bunch of thugs and gangs are killing each other.
Posted by Lsuchs
Member since Apr 2013
8073 posts
Posted on 1/11/18 at 3:11 am to
I would think for most guns crimes the owners didn’t bother obtaining them legally.

I’m probably less likely to use a firearm registered in my name to commit a crime. And I’m probably less likely to commit a crime having been able to purchase that gun over the counter, legally and affordably.

Of course there are the exceptions
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 3:21 am
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