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HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Member since Mar 2012
38997 posts

Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
[Of President Grover Cleveland's 584 vetoes, that of the "Texas Seed Bill" (February 16, 1887) may be the most famous. Members of Congress wanted to help suffering farmers in the American West, but Cleveland rejected their bill, citing the limited mission of the general government and arguing that private charity and already-existing government programs should furnish the necessary aid.]

quote:

I return without my approval House bill number 10203, entitled "An Act to enable the Commissioner of Agriculture to make a special distribution of seeds in drought-stricken counties of Texas, and making an appropriation therefor."

It is represented that a long-continued and extensive drought has existed in certain portions of the State of Texas, resulting in a failure of crops and consequent distress and destitution.

Though there has been some difference in statements concerning the extent of the people's needs in the localities thus affected, there seems to be no doubt that there has existed a condition calling for relief; and I am willing to believe that, notwithstanding the aid already furnished, a donation of seed grain to the farmers located in this region, to enable them to put in new crops, would serve to avert a continuance or return of an unfortunate blight.

And yet I feel obliged to withhold my approval of the plan as proposed by this bill, to indulge a benevolent and charitable sentiment through the appropriation of public funds for that purpose.

I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people.

The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.

It is within my personal knowledge that individual aid has, to some extent, already been extended to the sufferers mentioned in this bill. The failure of the proposed appropriation of $10,000 additional, to meet their remaining wants, will not necessarily result in continued distress if the emergency is fully made known to the people of the country.

It is here suggested that the Commissioner of Agriculture is annually directed to expend a large sum of money for the purchase, propagation, and distribution of seeds and other things of this description, two-thirds of which are, upon the request of senators, representatives, and delegates in Congress, supplied to them for distribution among their constituents.

The appropriation of the current year for this purpose is $100,000, and it will probably be no less in the appropriation for the ensuing year. I understand that a large quantity of grain is furnished for such distribution, and it is supposed that this free apportionment among their neighbors is a privilege which may be waived by our senators and representatives.

If sufficient of them should request the Commissioner of Agriculture to send their shares of the grain thus allowed them, to the suffering farmers of Texas, they might be enabled to sow their crops; the constituents, for whom in theory this grain is intended, could well bear the temporary deprivation, and the donors would experience the satisfaction attending deeds of charity.


Very relevant today.

Damn shame how far the dem party has fallen since his time.


stuntman
LSU Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
4320 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Grover Cleveland...top 5 president of all time. Gets almost no recognition, because he rarely "did something".

This country would be sooooo much better off if politicians were more like him.


Sentrius
USA Fan
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
46621 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Grover Cleveland and Calvin Coolidge are America's two GOAT Presidents.


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103
OneFifty
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Aug 2012
3082 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Grover Cleveland...top 5 president of all time. Gets almost no recognition, because he rarely "did something".

This country would be sooooo much better off if politicians were more like him.


Absolutely agree.

He is in the top 3 of my presidential favorites. He bent a little at the end, but even then, he expressed his regrets. BTW, this country will never allow one like him again...seeing how there has not been one like him since.


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81
stuntman
LSU Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
4320 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Oh, and the forgotten part of this story, which is a very important footnote, is that after the veto, charitable giving to those farmers was more than TEN TIMES what government wanted to hand out.


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101
ChineseBandit58
LSU Fan
west of the pines
Member since Aug 2005
22450 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood

No truer words were ever spoken.


Rakim
USA Fan
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

No truer words were ever spoken


Charity is gonna take care of Texas and Florida after these Hurricanes?


HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Member since Mar 2012
38997 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Charity is gonna take care of Texas and Florida after these Hurricanes?
Yes

How was Galveston rebuilt? How did NOLA deal with hurricanes in the decades and decades and decades before fema?


Rakim
USA Fan
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Yes

How was Galveston rebuilt? How did NOLA deal with hurricanes in the decades and decades and decades before fema?




Wake up, people can't rebuild like that these days. Back then most people were manual laborers. Now a days it's a different story. Don't be stupid and argue just for the sake of it.


stuntman
LSU Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
4320 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Huh? It's EASIER to rebuild now.


Rakim
USA Fan
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Charity

100% charity is what he wants. Come on


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26
boston vol
Tennessee Fan
Lexington-Fayette, KY
Member since Sep 2015
543 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
This is exactly what Charles Murray was talking about in his book "Coming Apart." He, like President Cleveland, is exactly right.


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14&Counting
Columbia Fan
Wherever The Gold Standard Resides
Member since Jul 2012
12221 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Ridiculous.....if their is a purpose that government serves its in times like these for disaster relief.

quote:

HailHailtoMichigan!


When the big one hits Cali you will be singing a different tune


IceTiger
USA Fan
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
14240 posts
 Online 

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Back then most people were manual laborers. Now a days it's a different story. Don't be stupid and argue just for the sake of it


You are not accounting for technological and informational advances...in my neighborhood 3 workers, a plumber and electrician are throwing a house up every 20 days.

It took 10 men just 40 years ago to get it done at that rate.

We have a publix going up at a crazy speed. Everything is different, but more dynamic.


IceTiger
USA Fan
Really hot place
Member since Oct 2007
14240 posts
 Online 

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:


Ridiculous.....if their is a purpose that government serves its in times like these for disaster relief


Delineate between the Fed and the state/or local...

Who is more responsible? Fed or state?


Navytiger74
Navy Fan
NOVA/DC—Following Honest Bob Around
Member since Oct 2009
47202 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:



You are not accounting for technological and informational advances...in my neighborhood 3 workers, a plumber and electrician are throwing a house up every 20 days.

It took 10 men just 40 years ago to get it done at that rate.

We have a publix going up at a crazy speed. Everything is different, but more dynamic.
Rakim's basic point stands. We're much more densely populated with a great deal more material infrastructure to rebuild/replace than in times past. Even with skilled workers building at that pace, what's to say that they'd be willing or financial able to abandon for-profit ventures to work at cut rates or for free? What evidence do we have that local organizations could coordinate the financial and material resources necessary to undertake a rapid, municipalality-wide relief and rebuilding effort. Yes government is inefficient, but I'd remind people that charitable organizations are notoriously so as well. And these are well-established entities. Can't imagine the jackassery involved in a bunch of make-shift committees trying to manage this kind of effort, all the while fighting over territory and dollars. And I would tend to agree that a government-sponsored but state and local-managed effort is ideal. Of course being from Louisiana we know that that's no silver bullet either.


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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
26542 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Wake up, people don't want to rebuild like that these days.


Fixed.


navy
Navy Fan
Bannedeville, SC
Member since Sep 2010
19462 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers

Right about the time when Katrina happened and all hell broke loose ... we all remember ...


... there were entire towns in the Midwest that got absolutely leveled by tornadoes ... and those people just put on their big-boy pants, cleaned up, and went about their business, happy to be alive.



They didn't resort to looting, raping, killing, etc., like a bunch of damn animals ... and crying for free shite from the G.


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Parmen
LSU Fan
Manhattan, New York
Member since Apr 2016
2239 posts
 Online 

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Grover Cleveland and James Polk are great presidents who never get recognition and modern times.


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20
germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
12342 posts

re: Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
quote:

Grover Cleveland beautifully explains his veto of a texas disaster relief bill for farmers
Huh? It's EASIER to rebuild now.





Yeah....telll that to the Conchs who lived in 1970 mobile homes in the Keys which were sitting on lots valued over half a million dollars. You can count on one thing after a hurricane......the ugly, run down houses that people working low wage jobs were living in are going to be eliminated by zoning laws.


Florida does it EVERY year.....all,of a sudden a septic system that was acceptable before the house it was connected to was destroyed is no longer acceptable.....making a $8000 lot worthless unless someone has the cash to install a $10k septic system.....if the soil and the lot is such that such a system can be installed. All of those old raggedy arse mobile homes in the keys are gone now.....and in there place is going to be a multi- million $ home......

And by the way insurance won't pay for a septic system that is condemned due to ordinances unrelated to a disaster. Those people are fricked.....and it happens in huge numbers in Florida and Georgia and SC......


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