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Started By
Message
re: Government picking winners and losers on tariffs--steel gets the exemptions they want
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:17 pm to I B Freeman
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:17 pm to I B Freeman
So
0
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:31 pm to I B Freeman
The US needs a steel industry, protection for avocados....not as much.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:39 pm to AUTiger1978
You should probably read this report.
LINK
While your numbers on their steel production may be right--there is no link--it is on total production and not exports. Remember that 25% of the world's population live in China so they are also a very big consumer of steel. You will see on page 6 of that report that exports of steel equal only about 13.2% of their production in 2016 and about 8.8% in 2017. The United States is not even in their top ten countries of destination of steel. The US is number 21. Our tariffs on steel are not a very big concern of China as you can see.
It is natural that the parts of the world that are growing the fastest--greater Asia--will have the largest growth in production of commodities like steel.
Steel is a very fragmented industry and an industry with very little barriers of entry. I am not worried about availability of steel in a time of war. The steel industry is much healthier in the US today than it was 25 years ago and we have never had a steel shortage yet we have been at war almost the entire 25 years.
Now I am an American and I support Americans and their free access to goods and services. I oppose big government and the use of big government to punish the people with taxes and tariffs and the use of big government to garner profits for special interest and politicians.
Anyone supporting these tariffs supports big government cronyism, big government trade restrictions and big government in general at the expense of American citizens.
LINK
While your numbers on their steel production may be right--there is no link--it is on total production and not exports. Remember that 25% of the world's population live in China so they are also a very big consumer of steel. You will see on page 6 of that report that exports of steel equal only about 13.2% of their production in 2016 and about 8.8% in 2017. The United States is not even in their top ten countries of destination of steel. The US is number 21. Our tariffs on steel are not a very big concern of China as you can see.
It is natural that the parts of the world that are growing the fastest--greater Asia--will have the largest growth in production of commodities like steel.
Steel is a very fragmented industry and an industry with very little barriers of entry. I am not worried about availability of steel in a time of war. The steel industry is much healthier in the US today than it was 25 years ago and we have never had a steel shortage yet we have been at war almost the entire 25 years.
Now I am an American and I support Americans and their free access to goods and services. I oppose big government and the use of big government to punish the people with taxes and tariffs and the use of big government to garner profits for special interest and politicians.
Anyone supporting these tariffs supports big government cronyism, big government trade restrictions and big government in general at the expense of American citizens.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:58 pm to I B Freeman
quote:We've been at war with enemies that the Chinese don't give a rat's arse about. They weren't going to throw their weight around in retaliation for some dumb shite we've been doing in the Middle East. They're saving up for when they finally have the sphere of influence that they've been gunning for since the Clinton years. They think strategically long term. We don't.
Steel is a very fragmented industry and an industry with very little barriers of entry. I am not worried about availability of steel in a time of war. The steel industry is much healthier in the US today than it was 25 years ago and we have never had a steel shortage yet we have been at war almost the entire 25 years.
quote:
Anyone supporting these tariffs supports big government cronyism, big government trade restrictions and big government in general at the expense of American citizens.
This proves you don't understand the motives behind the tariffs. It's long been established and people are growing weary of your b.s. You want to take this single issue and pretend that it's not a part of a massive set of policies that are all linked. It's wrong to think of any of these issues that Trump is addressing in isolation. The tariffs, taxes, immigration, Korea situation and even the postal pact are all linked.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 3:45 pm to AUTiger1978
quote:
This proves you don't understand the motives behind the tariffs
Wrong.
I understand completely. I doubt you do.
This is about access to Chinese markets for US firms--the idea being that the trade deficit is important and by helping US firms sell more in China the deficit will go down. This is also about US firms that want to invest in China without taking on Chinese partners like the government that steal IP. Those are the main things Trump wrote in his directive to the US Trade Officer office. (I doubt the assumptions of the idea and the premise that reducing the trade deficit is important.)
The question you should ask yourself is how much should the consuming US public be punished to accomplish these goals? Goals that will have little impact at all on most Americans.
Now the steel tariff is simple special interest protectionism. It pertains to virtually everybody we import steel from---most being much larger than China.
Oh trade is linked to the other issues---no question about that. The question is how much do you punish American to address these issues. Certainly whatever policies we have concerning immigration can be handled without taxing Americans. Certainly North Korea can be handled without taxing Americans.
I am certain in your mind they are all good and necessary. Forgive me if I am skeptical. You take the government's word for it--I know better. Certainly the effectiveness of the tariffs on Chinese goods are not what most of you expected---the trade deficit with China in September set a record. Tariffs hurt both parties and we know they are hurting Americans today.
What is certain is Trump and his team are committed to taking more from you and me in the form of tariffs to maintain our standard of living. That is not debatable.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 3:48 pm to I B Freeman
quote:$2 million to a mythical lead laced chemical importer.
The question you should ask yourself is how much should the consuming US public be punished to accomplish these goals?
Posted on 10/22/18 at 3:58 pm to Jbird
Hes such a fricken bitch. Paper pushing dullards like him are the worst
Posted on 10/22/18 at 4:00 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
I B Freeman
Surprised you haven’t been banned yet.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 4:01 pm to Tractor Tug60
He ought to be. Hes a traitor fir supporting China
Posted on 10/22/18 at 4:10 pm to I B Freeman
Your margins must be getting thinner by the day. You are sounding more desperate all the time.
There are separate issues here. There most certainly are tariffs that are being used to bludgeon China into certain economic concessions, among other things. In the long run nobody gives two shits if their game of tiddlywinks is produced in China.
The second category of tariffs are meant to steer certain U.S. companies that are vital to national security away from Chinese manufacturing. Steel, aluminum and the certain technology(computer components etc.) have tariffs designed to kill the economic incentive to produce these goods in China over the long haul.
There are separate issues here. There most certainly are tariffs that are being used to bludgeon China into certain economic concessions, among other things. In the long run nobody gives two shits if their game of tiddlywinks is produced in China.
The second category of tariffs are meant to steer certain U.S. companies that are vital to national security away from Chinese manufacturing. Steel, aluminum and the certain technology(computer components etc.) have tariffs designed to kill the economic incentive to produce these goods in China over the long haul.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:01 pm to AUTiger1978
Do you have any links at all to these goals you have conjured up?
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:05 pm to I B Freeman
Muh tarrifs 
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:06 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:
We need an NPC meme fir IB cuckmam
Film tax credits are bad
Tariffs are bad
Orange man bad
Will you hold me
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:07 pm to AUTiger1978
The end result will be higher costs for us. The US will never be the low cost producer on products like steel or computer parts.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:13 pm to I B Freeman
Let me give the specific findings that led to the $200 billion list:
All of those things are about US firms doing business in China---NONE are about dumping, none are about subsidies, none are about imports into the USA or prices of imports into the USA. All are true but the simplest way for companies to deal with the first three are simply DON"T DO BUSINESS IN CHINA--keep your dealings with China confined to buying from them NOT selling things you want to protect to them.
Now I know you don't mind the Government taxing the public so these companies that want to invest in China or sell into China might get some relief and make a bunch of money but I really do not see the benefit to the average American.
I know whatever news you listen to has never quoted these actual goals of the 301 tariffs but now you know.
So compare those facts with your perceptions and do a little thinking.
Surely none of you boneheads hammering on me support the special interest treatment the steel industry is getting. You really have misplaced priorities if you think it is ok that steel can dictate our tariff and trade policy to protect their profits.
quote:
In March 2018, USTR released the findings of its exhaustive Section 301 investigation that found China’s acts, policies and practices related to technology transfer, intellectual property and innovation are unreasonable and discriminatory and burden or restrict U.S. commerce.
Specifically, the Section 301 investigation revealed:
China uses joint venture requirements, foreign investment restrictions, and administrative review and licensing processes to require or pressure technology transfer from U.S. companies.
China deprives U.S. companies of the ability to set market-based terms in licensing and other technology-related negotiations.
China directs and unfairly facilitates the systematic investment in, and acquisition of, U.S. companies and assets to generate large-scale technology transfer.
China conducts and supports cyber intrusions into U.S. commercial computer networks to gain unauthorized access to commercially valuable business information.
All of those things are about US firms doing business in China---NONE are about dumping, none are about subsidies, none are about imports into the USA or prices of imports into the USA. All are true but the simplest way for companies to deal with the first three are simply DON"T DO BUSINESS IN CHINA--keep your dealings with China confined to buying from them NOT selling things you want to protect to them.
Now I know you don't mind the Government taxing the public so these companies that want to invest in China or sell into China might get some relief and make a bunch of money but I really do not see the benefit to the average American.
I know whatever news you listen to has never quoted these actual goals of the 301 tariffs but now you know.
So compare those facts with your perceptions and do a little thinking.
Surely none of you boneheads hammering on me support the special interest treatment the steel industry is getting. You really have misplaced priorities if you think it is ok that steel can dictate our tariff and trade policy to protect their profits.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 6:53 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
China is like the 11th largest supplier to the US?
On the books...sure. What about their steel ending up in other countries of off the books, being declared as being made in that country (as opposed to China), then shipped to the US. If Mexico and Canada are the "middleman" nation...then tariffs would have been avoided per NAFTA (an added bonus for your friends). In short, their is one end game...the end of US self reliance. Our country are happy little lambs fattened up on cheap Chinese products. At some point, after the US has lost the ability to compete, the economic slaughter will commence. See "rare Earth elements" as an example of this. Thanks but no thanks. I'll pass on having China own us.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 7:33 pm to I B Freeman
Yeah! frick American made products! frick American manufacturing! Orange meanie bad!
Posted on 10/22/18 at 7:35 pm to jimmy the leg
Read the report in the link Jimmy. Their top ten shipments go to Asian countries.
Our top sources are Canada, Mexico and Brazil. None of those are top ten customers of China so they are not shipping through Mexico and Canada to get to us to any large degree.
Here is a report on US imports LINK
Here for your convenience is the original link on China. LINK
Our top sources are Canada, Mexico and Brazil. None of those are top ten customers of China so they are not shipping through Mexico and Canada to get to us to any large degree.
Here is a report on US imports LINK
Here for your convenience is the original link on China. LINK
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 10/22/18 at 7:46 pm to I B Freeman
The Chinese tariffs and the steel tariffs have different goals. See the OP.
The goal of the steel tariffs are clearly protection of a favored industry and apply to essentially all steel coming into the country regardless of the source.
The goals of the Chinese tariffs I posted a couple of posts up. They are to get more access to Chinese markets for US multinational companies.
Unfortunately many posters here have their own ideas what the tariffs are about.
Regardless they are a punishment of American consumers by the US Government.
The goal of the steel tariffs are clearly protection of a favored industry and apply to essentially all steel coming into the country regardless of the source.
The goals of the Chinese tariffs I posted a couple of posts up. They are to get more access to Chinese markets for US multinational companies.
Unfortunately many posters here have their own ideas what the tariffs are about.
Regardless they are a punishment of American consumers by the US Government.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 7:56 pm to I B Freeman
quote:man, go eat a shite sandwich and STFU...you poor, ignorant jackass
I B Freeman
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