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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

some men (sex) prefer to be feminine (gender)
therein lies the rub - prefer. i thought you were going to refer to levels of testosterone/hormones. the preference you are referring to is not a naturally occurring phenomenon. it is epigenetic at most and completely socially/emotionally manufactured at least.

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a man in a dress is not a woman (sex), but he is feminine (gender).
and this is the kind of silly reasoning we've been allowing to fester among young people. a person can be born a female and be a tomboy but still be at peace with being female. GASP! SCANDALOUS! our society has led people to believe that being a tomboy female means there is something wrong and gender reassignment is needed. vice versa with males. humanity got along just fine with butchy women. sex changes are a novel, unnecessary thing.

now, you are probably going to respond that certain people exhibit ssa and that is substantiation that gender reassignment is a necessary option at least. if ssa is epigenetic, which it might be, it certainly isn't more than that, it doesn't have to be any different than obesity/substance abuse/violence/kleptomania/pyromania/etc. those are proclivities which either get acted upon or not.

just because a man feels ssa, that does not mean he SHOULD have sex with another man any more than a person who feels pyromania SHOULD set someone's house on fire. homosexuals are CHOOSING to have same sex encounters. biologically speaking, there is no reason for a man to have sex with another man. it serves absolutely no purpose whether socially or biologically. it is purely a psychological placebo, a coping mechanism. anything epigenetic can be resisted provided the person has the willpower and support system.

we have unfortunately stigmatized ssa however, some people are trying to deal with it as it is, such as narth. they are looking at the epigenetic aspect of it and helping people deal with it instead of going down the psychological dead end/slippery slope that is homosexuality or alternative lifestyles.


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21
Saint Alfonzo
Syracuse Fan
Member since Jan 2019
1997 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

It's just the opposite. I'm fighting through the gobbledygook and going back to original definitions of the terms, 'sex' and 'gender'. Sex is determined genetically (x,y), gender is not.


Sex is an immutable characteristic. You're a man or a woman, it's as simple as that. Gender is simply how you feel about that. It's personality and emotions. You can pretend to be anything you want to be, it doesn't make it science, it's just you getting in your feelings. Play whatever gender "role" you want to play, it's still just acting.


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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

Sex is determined genetically (x,y), gender is not.
what you are describing is a social construct, not a biological fact.

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There's no way to tell what the gender will be once it develops into a adult
there's also no reason for a person who is biologically a male to either have sex with another male or have their genitals surgically removed.

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Gender is cultural
this is how the discussion has been reframed. first, there are only two "genders" and they match a person's biological sex. sometimes a person might have a epigenetic proclivity towards an alternative but, that does not have to be acted upon. everything else is an unnecessary social construct and psychological coping mechanism. culture has fostered the idea that gender can be "fluid." but "gender" is not "cultural."

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It's subjective.
completely wrong. this has been confirmed by science. it is static.

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It certainly can.
again, completely wrong. you are referring to the epigenetic traits a person has and yes, they can fluctuate. gender/sex does not.

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a man could wear a dress one day, and be feminine, and wear what we would generally agree to be masculine clothing the next day, and be masculine.
you are describing behavior, not something that is biologically real. you are trying to normalize it and make it seem like it's just how a person is. you aren't separating the epigenetic influence from the unhealthy choices a person is making. society has inculcated this to you and you have bought into it as if it is normative. the behavior you are describing is neither socially necessary nor biologically normal.

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it's also linked to the culture not accepting that individual for however the hell they want to appear and act.
this is because for some reason, the culture has decided to ignore the science of the matter and nurture people's delusions.


bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

Gender roles are decidedly NOT binary, and this has been confirmed by anthropological studies of hundreds of cultures throughout human history and prehistory.
oh my. here we go with yet another misguided hank adventure.

you are also using contemporary nomenclature that is flawed. gender is binary despite what contemporary society says. epigenetic traits that people have are not binary. however, epigenetic traits do not determine the kind of behavior a person must have. they are proclivities. they do not have to be acted upon. just because some misguided people have decided to respond to life pressures with unhealthy coping mechanisms does not mean biology just gets rewritten.

now, a culture might choose to make social allowances for homosexual activity, which has happened in history, but those are affectations and nothing more. they don't do anything to make homosexual activity normative. i suspect your responses will necessitate that i point you to resources regarding sexual practices of ancient mediterranean societies. the gay community has been misled on this matter.

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I have never understood why so many people continue to insist that the concepts of sex and gender MUST be coextensive in all cases
um, because science and stuff?

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they HAVE historically been basically coextensive in OUR Western culture for many years
you are probably going to be surprised at what you learn from ancient cultures. it wasn't as normative as you seem to think and as the gay community thinks. but learning that actually requires academic research and those people are operating at a popular level.


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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

I'm sure it's offensive for fundamentalists who actually believe in Big Creator Guy mythology
how so?

also, prove that YHWH is a myth


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995webmaster
Navy Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
3764 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
The Catholic Church should spend less time debating gender definitions and more time cleaning up its centuries-long (and still on-going) pedo problem:

French Priest Claims Child Rape Is Not Violence But ‘Tenderness’



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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

The Inquisition locked up Galileo for heresy because he published papers stating that the earth was NOT the center of the universe, and that the planets revolves around the sun. A Heliocentric (sun centered universe).
he was not locked up for that. he was in trouble for his theological teachings. there were people in church leadership who were interested in his astronomical research. this is a legend that has been perpetuated by shallow anti-christians. the church already knew of the idea that the earth was not at the center of the universe, such as through tycho brahe's work.

also, he wasn't "locked up." he was under house arrest and was allowed to continue his research

read this


bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

Prove it
what would be proof of god to you?


mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
25057 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

he was not locked up for that. he was in trouble for his theological teachings. there were people in church leadership who were interested in his astronomical research. this is a legend that has been perpetuated by shallow anti-christians. the church already knew of the idea that the earth was not at the center of the universe, such as through tycho brahe's work.

also, he wasn't "locked up." he was under house arrest and was allowed to continue his research

They considered heliocentric (Earth revolves around Sun) concept as teaching against the Bible, so yes it was about that... As well as accidentally calling the Pope an idiot (oops).


mmcgrath
LSU Fan
New Jersey
Member since Feb 2010
25057 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

what would be proof of god to you?
a big booming voice in the sky that speaks in all languages would be a good start. You know, anything that defies science.


Hangover Haven
LSU Fan
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
11698 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

Surprised this pope didn’t tuck his dick back behind his legs to show solidarity with the trannies


Even as liberal as he is, he still doesn't agree with all the gender bull shite...


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20
FooManChoo
Georgia Fan
Member since Dec 2012
25146 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

a big booming voice in the sky that speaks in all languages would be a good start. You know, anything that defies science
So you’d be just like the ignorant tribespeople of old who attributed lightning to the gods? You wouldn’t just hold out hope for a natural explanation?


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WildTchoupitoulas
Fan of: Whoever's Winning
Member since Jan 2010
33609 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

quote:

Sex is determined genetically (x,y), gender is not.


what you are describing is a social construct, not a biological fact.



No, what I'm doing is drawing the distinction between sex and gender, one being a biological fact, the other a social construct. What we think of as feminine in the US may not be considered feminine in another culture - sex being irrelevant in this case. Think of wearing a skirt. Generally, in our culture this is seen as feminine, in Scotland, it is not.

What we think of as female in the US is female (except in rare biological cases) in every other culture - gender being irrelevant in this case. Think of chromosomes. Generally, in our culture, having two x chromosomes is seen as being female, in Scotland, it is also seen as female.


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there are only two "genders" and they match a person's biological sex.

quote:

again, completely wrong. you are referring to the epigenetic traits a person has and yes, they can fluctuate. gender/sex does not.

You're conflating gender and sex. They are not the same thing.

Also, there are many cultures where three genders are recognized: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Think of language.

quote:

quote:

a man could wear a dress one day, and be feminine

you are describing behavior, not something that is biologically real.

That's exactly right, because there is no biological basis for gender, only for sex.
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the behavior you are describing is neither socially necessary nor biologically normal.

I agree with this. "Biologically normal" being a statistical analysis of social gender norms along sexual lines. These can diverge, however. While there's nothing biologically wrong with being a girly-man, and it may even be statistically outside of a "normal" range, it is often judged negatively by a culture.
quote:

people's delusions.

A male appearing to be feminine isn't delusional. A male mutilating his genitalia, and ingesting synthetic hormones, in an attempt to transform into a woman, IS delusional.





"Help me, I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!"


WildTchoupitoulas
Fan of: Whoever's Winning
Member since Jan 2010
33609 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

They should stop co-opting sex language

Indeed, sex is sex and gender is gender. Something can be feminine without being male or female. But we as a culture determine that. Consider inanimate objects; they can be masculine or feminine (culturally determined gender), but cannot be male or female (biologically determined sex). Our culture considers a dress to be feminine. Dresses CANNOT be female. Other cultures may not necessarily see dresses as feminine.


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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

They considered heliocentric (Earth revolves around Sun) concept as teaching against the Bible
not entirely true. i've already commented on the situation. why are you repeating something that you know is false

quote:

yes it was about that
no it was not. i gave you a resource to get educated on that


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11
bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

a big booming voice in the sky that speaks in all languages would be a good start
you're just having a private hallucination. try again

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You know, anything that defies science
you mean like documented evidence of contemporary miracles?

or like evidence for the empty tomb?


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10
gthog61
Georgia Tech Fan
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
45483 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
Either you are a functioning male or a functioning female or you a defect.


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bfniii
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2005
13003 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

What we think of as feminine in the US may not be considered feminine in another culture
that is not gender. that's just cultural behavior. gender is not defined by culture. it is defined by your biological sex.

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sex being irrelevant in this case
it's not. our culture has manufactured this and you have bought into it.

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Think of wearing a skirt. Generally, in our culture this is seen as feminine, in Scotland, it is not
that is fashion, not gender.

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You're conflating gender and sex
no i'm not. you're saying gender is culturally dependent. it's not. it's your cognitive realization of your sex.

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They are not the same thing
they should be coextensive. it's common sense and it's what multiple people have been saying itt.

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there are many cultures where three genders are recognized: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Think of language
oh my word. neuter pronouns are not a sex all their own. they refer to EITHER sex or both. language is a completely different matter than psychological gender

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there is no biological basis for gender, only for sex
and i've explained how you are wrong on this matter. just because our contemporary culture is botching it up doesn't mean gender gets reinvented.

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These can diverge, however
only to confused contemporary westerners. you have been given an analogy/parody of the slippery slope involved in this. i'm not sure why you are ignoring it.

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A male appearing to be feminine isn't delusional
i have not argued against this. what i have said is that our culture has normalized the unhealthy behavior of ssa, sex change operations, etc. iow, if you have a ssa epigenetic tendency, you need to act on it and society just needs to accept whatever you do. that is completely wrong, it is hurting our society and makes no sense biologically


deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
50520 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
While I believe in God, I don’t think he dictates what gender we will be. That’s actually a biological function that occurs.

Since God gave us free will He actually gave us the ability to choose to pretend to be another gender besides what biology dictated. He may not recommend doing so, but hey He gave people the free will to choose to be freaks.


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Spirit Of Aggieland
Texas A&M Fan
Houston
Member since Aug 2011
3922 posts

re: God dictates gender, which does not exist on a spectrum and cannot be changed
quote:

he was not locked up for that. he was in trouble for his theological teachings. there were people in church leadership who were interested in his astronomical research. this is a legend that has been perpetuated by shallow anti-christians. the church already knew of the idea that the earth was not at the center of the universe, such as through tycho brahe's work. also, he wasn't "locked up." he was under house arrest and was allowed to continue his research


Yep. House arrest. But that’s semantics. I brought it up as an example of the Vatican rejecting science when it contradicts their views.

You say the church was interested in Astronomical research, great, but that doesn’t mean that they accept the findings that are perceived to contradict their stature. Surely you don’t believe that the church welcomed “free speech” in that regard.


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