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Posted on 5/22/22 at 11:45 pm to Champagne
quote:Thankfully, the stakes aren’t that high for misinterpreting the meaning of the Eucharist.
Are you willing to bet your Soul that the Church was wrong for over 1,500 years and some guys from Europe figured it out after that?
Posted on 5/22/22 at 11:53 pm to BigHeads
Those 3 billion people in China/India sure are in for quite a shock 
What a narrow, simplistic and ignorant worldview
What a narrow, simplistic and ignorant worldview
Posted on 5/22/22 at 11:57 pm to Champagne
quote:
Are you willing to bet your Soul that the Church was wrong for over 1,500 years and some guys from Europe figured it out after that?
Are you willing to bet that humans existed for 197,000 years before a small group of nomadic, previously polytheistic people in the Levant finally figured it out?
The sheer number of humans Christian theology condemns to hell by necessity just based on happenstance of birth is enough to render it completely absurd.
This post was edited on 5/22/22 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 5:50 am to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
Which is why we have these guidelines.
1John 4:1-6
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world, therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. The one who knows God listens to us; the one who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:27 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Are you willing to bet that humans existed for 197,000 years before a small group of nomadic, previously polytheistic people in the Levant finally figured it out?
The sheer number of humans Christian theology condemns to hell by necessity just based on happenstance of birth is enough to render it completely absurd.
Those are two good questions. The question of "God's Timing" is a good one. There's no way to be sure of the answer.
But for your second question, "happenstance of birth" is not going to be a factor in somebody going to Hell, if I understand things correctly.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:34 am to bayoubengals88
Stakes aren't high for misinterpreting the Eucharist? Jesus clearly instructs that you are dead wrong about that.
LINK
"Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you."
Folks, a Protestant Pastor can't allow himself to change his mind on this issue. If he does, he loses his job, his livelihood and maybe even his wife, who will be angry that he lost his job and livelihood. Do your own research on this issue. Look at the history of the Church. Look at the writings of the Early Church Fathers whose writings clearly address the issue.
Look at the writings of the Roman Government officials themselves who focused on the beliefs of The Way in those first years, and see how they clearly understood the literal interpretation of the Eucharist and condemned it as cannibalism - they said that the followers of The Way were cannibals because The Way believes that the Flesh and the Blood are real food and real drink.
LINK
"Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you."
Folks, a Protestant Pastor can't allow himself to change his mind on this issue. If he does, he loses his job, his livelihood and maybe even his wife, who will be angry that he lost his job and livelihood. Do your own research on this issue. Look at the history of the Church. Look at the writings of the Early Church Fathers whose writings clearly address the issue.
Look at the writings of the Roman Government officials themselves who focused on the beliefs of The Way in those first years, and see how they clearly understood the literal interpretation of the Eucharist and condemned it as cannibalism - they said that the followers of The Way were cannibals because The Way believes that the Flesh and the Blood are real food and real drink.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 7:58 am to Champagne
The pertinent point re Jesus - minus all the theological symbolism- is that one must knowingly surrender and invite Jesus to interdict into one’s personal sovereignty. That is no small thing as God respects (He must, guided by The Word) our free-willed choice. Minus such a surrender of sovereignty, one is governed by Universal Law and Darwinian Principle. Ultimately, subjective Perception is Reality. Lest God be condemned in creating Humanity for its own narcissistic purpose. Not rocket science; why do loving people create children? The OP is right; it is ‘war’ between two ultimate values. Self v Whole. Love v Love’s Opposite. IMO. To each their own.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:20 am to Champagne
quote:
Champagne
The answer to everything you are saying can be found in your own posts.
quote:
You are becoming very tiresome, indeed, with all of your talk of the End Times.
quote:
this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him (John 6:66)"
This reveals who you are, and the lines you omitted is the answer to everything you say.
John 6:61-65
So then many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This statement is very unpleasant; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, aware that His disciples were complaining about this, said to them, “Is this offensive to you? 62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit, and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:28 am to BigHeads
quote:Yes, that's what we are to do with those claiming to be prophets, but I'm not talking about new prophecies, but interpretations of old ones.
Which is why we have these guidelines.
1John 4:1-6
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world, therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. The one who knows God listens to us; the one who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
There are a few different ways to interpret biblical eschatology, and pre-mil dispensationalism is the one that most Christians adhere to these days, and it is that one that interprets the Bible by the newspapers.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 8:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
I don't claim to follow any of the popular views or interpretations, though I would be lying if I said I wasn't at all influenced. I try to interpret the Bible through the way I believe it is meant to be interpreted, prayer, fasting, and reading. Trusting in God alone, not in man. I do believe we are told to watch for those signs, and they are happening. Run down to the grocery store and see there is no baby formula, look in the sky and see the eclipses, satellites etc, you're on the internet where knowledge is increased, planes for people to go to and fro, I witnessed a temple(not in person), of a sort, being surrounded and sacked, its' treasures taken away, if I included the rest of this sentence, I'd be banned. Now we have some outbreak of boils and sores, supposedly affecting the evil ones. I am simply following the gospel and watching for the fig tree to sprout its leaves, and getting more hopeful by the day. I tell you as the result of my own prayer and faith, he is near, "right at the door", I wish to share the good news with you.
I stuck my head in the dirt for quite some time, I prayed, fasted, and I read the Bible until my inner peace was restored. Then I came out of that hole, and I can see more clearly.
I would be interested in understanding how you can't see the signs.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 9:00 am
Posted on 5/23/22 at 9:37 am to BigHeads
quote:The signs that you listed have existed in various forms for 2,000 years. There have been wars, plagues, earthquakes, shortages of supplies, and all sorts of bad things that have happened to people all throughout history that could have led to the same conclusion that you have come to. World War 2 was so bad that many people thought Jesus was about to return at that time.
I don't claim to follow any of the popular views or interpretations, though I would be lying if I said I wasn't at all influenced. I try to interpret the Bible through the way I believe it is meant to be interpreted, prayer, fasting, and reading. Trusting in God alone, not in man. I do believe we are told to watch for those signs, and they are happening. Run down to the grocery store and see there is no baby formula, look in the sky and see the eclipses, satellites etc, you're on the internet where knowledge is increased, planes for people to go to and fro, I witnessed a temple(not in person), of a sort, being surrounded and sacked, its' treasures taken away, if I included the rest of this sentence, I'd be banned. Now we have some outbreak of boils and sores, supposedly affecting the evil ones. I am simply following the gospel and watching for the fig tree to sprout its leaves, and getting more hopeful by the day. I tell you as the result of my own prayer and faith, he is near, "right at the door", I wish to share the good news with you.
I stuck my head in the dirt for quite some time, I prayed, fasted, and I read the Bible until my inner peace was restored. Then I came out of that hole, and I can see more clearly.
I would be interested in understanding how you can't see the signs.
I don't mean this to be insulting, but I've found that most people who adhere to this pre-mil dispensational view of eschatology are simply ignorant of history, believing that the "signs" that they are seeing are unique to their particular generation.
Let me ask you this: what should the Christian do differently if Christ were returning tomorrow vs. if He were returning in 500 years from now?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 9:51 am to BigHeads
This is truth
Posted on 5/23/22 at 11:09 am to FooManChoo
quote:
World War 2
Correct, do you see what's coming this time?
quote:
believing that the "signs" that they are seeing are unique to their particular generation.
Taking the view of the rest of the world is your answer? It hasn't happened the last few times, so it won't happen this time?
quote:
500 years from now?
We should be doing the same thing, but many have gone and will go astray. We are not called to start WW3, as many seem to think.
The difference between now, and the other times, as far as I can tell...this is/was the last bastion of freedom, there's nowhere left to go. Historically, we are the pioneers/nomads who go from place to place, seeking freedom from persecution. When we are outnumbered by the children of the desolate, and there is nowhere left to turn, that is when Jesus will come back.
I respectfully think you are mistaken about this, as there is nothing new under the sun. The enemy uses the same basic strategy over and over again throughout the generations, otherwise known as history repeating itself. Though it matters little so long as we both follow the same teaching.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that WW2 was defense of persecution of Jews, not Christians. Persecution is wrong, but not the one spoken of in the Christian New Testament.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 11:12 am
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