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re: Glenn Danzig: Punk rock wouldn't exist today because of "woke bullsh*t"
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:06 pm to kingbob
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:06 pm to kingbob
quote:
I know these things because I interact with musicians every single day.
So do I man. I've been involved in far more scenes than just BR.
quote:
It might not be London or New York in the 70's, but there's always punks.
Baton Rouge isn't representative of any scene.
quote:
I just don't like that the new scene is anti-free speech. I know it's anti free speech because I'm in it, and I see these assholes rail against it every damn weekend at shows and livestreams. They seem hell bent on destroying the very freedoms that allow them to do what they do in the first place. Much like republicans who supported the Patriot Act now shocked to find it used against them, these young punks fail to see how they're setting themselves up for being silenced.
It sounds like you just don't like being a conservative in a space that was openly left wing from its very origins. For supposedly being a "punk" you have some incredibly banal opinions.
quote:
The shift in the diy music scene from being pro free speech to anti free speech happened recently, while I was active in it.
Everything in music now is DIY. I still get asked by friends to do tracking and I'm doing it through my own set up. But the DIY aesthetic used to mean something far more inclusive, which included setting up zines for local punk scenes, using old materials to make up merch, setting up record labels to help distribute music and organizing house shows so bands could play. BR barely ever had that to my recall, and I'm skeptical it has gotten better. Now DIY seems to include doing a lot of video and editing work too, which is so boring.
Regardless, you should read some about the history of the subculture, because your own experience reiterates what I told you, that these punk groups were not organized around ideals like free-speech, but around specific contingent politics that was explicitly left wing. You are literally agreeing with me, and then at the same time providing no examples of actual "corporate" influence.
This post was edited on 5/1/21 at 10:07 pm
1
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:12 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
which included setting up zines for local punk scenes, using old materials to make up merch, setting up record labels to help distribute music and organizing house shows so bands could play. BR barely ever had that to my recall, and I'm skeptical it has gotten better.
I've literally done all of these things in the past 5 years, and most of them in the past year. BR has multiple DIY and house party venues. A lot of bands make their own merch by hand. I used to make shirts using a stensil, scotch tape, a spray bottle with bleach in it, and a bleach pen.
Heck, a bunch of guys in the scene didn't just make their own record label, but a pedal company to boot. They even invented a genre, as a goof, that then caught on to the point that it's an optional label on bandcamp that's being used by bands all over the country now.
The issue isn't that the politics are "left". Punk was always leftist. The issue is that the left used to stand for free speech, freedom of association, freedom of expression...until they didn't. The left hasn't just abandoned those values, the left has done a complete about face, and the punks followed right behind them like the good little conformists they are, just in rattier clothing with more colorful hair.
This post was edited on 5/1/21 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:16 pm to kingbob
Yeah again, I barely have any experience with the BR scene. It sucked when I came and it sucked when I left. I've played on a handful of records with other bands, and am sitting on two EPs of my own work. The BR scene doesn't really interest me.
But our respective experiences aside, you made a lot of claims about the "corporate" nature of punk today, and that seems quite a specific claim given that you couched that observation in your own experiences. Are you saying you are seeing corporate sponsorship in the BR scene?
But our respective experiences aside, you made a lot of claims about the "corporate" nature of punk today, and that seems quite a specific claim given that you couched that observation in your own experiences. Are you saying you are seeing corporate sponsorship in the BR scene?
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:18 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Are you saying you are seeing corporate sponsorship in the BR scene?
Believe it or not, yes.
It absolutely boggles the mind.
This post was edited on 5/1/21 at 10:19 pm
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:20 pm to kingbob
That does beggar belief, and is hilarious to boot. But I certainly didn't have that experience in Nashville or Seattle.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 7:47 am to Boring
quote:
Rage Against the Machine went from, “frick you I won’t do what you tell me!” to “listen to the authorities!”
I think this one isn't true.
Care to elaborate?
Also, damn lots of RATM hate in here. I still jam them, have a great sound and energy, and if you can look past the obvious ham fisted songs, some of the lyrics are really good.
Tom Morello might be insufferable but man he has a unique style and amazing tone
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 7:57 am
Posted on 5/2/21 at 7:59 am to PhDoogan
Musicians/Artists:
“Hey, first amendment says we can talk/sing about Anything we want. So we did. It was awful. But we got to do it. Now the woke culture we created is not allowing us to talk sing about what we want and NOW we are upset about that.”
They liked wokeness because it crashed mainstream/decent America. Now it hampers them and they are looking back and regretting it. frick them.
“Hey, first amendment says we can talk/sing about Anything we want. So we did. It was awful. But we got to do it. Now the woke culture we created is not allowing us to talk sing about what we want and NOW we are upset about that.”
They liked wokeness because it crashed mainstream/decent America. Now it hampers them and they are looking back and regretting it. frick them.
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 8:00 am
Posted on 5/2/21 at 8:02 am to kingbob
quote:
The issue isn't that the politics are "left". Punk was always leftist. The issue is that the left used to stand for free speech, freedom of association, freedom of expression...until they didn't.
Truth.
The left changed, and become authoritarian.
frick em. The new counterculture will be on the right.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 8:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
Musicians and artists propagated this culture they now hate.
They can go frick right off.
They can go frick right off.
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 8:05 am
Posted on 5/2/21 at 8:10 am to Seldom Seen
As far back as I can remember, it irritated me to see people abandon carts in parking lot. It was not a big deal and I never analyzed why it bothered me. I read this quote a while back and it was a Eureka moment for me. It is a litmus test and similar to what my father told me on how dogs react to people. He told me that if a dog is friendly to someone, they are good people.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 8:46 am to PhDoogan
This is probably the most hilariously wrong thread I have seen on TD to date, and that is honestly impressive.
Punk isn't defined by being "non-conformist", it is defined by "challenging norms to create social progress". Pointlessly being "against the grain" is not a movement. That's nonsense.
Punk *is* the woke culture that is being recognized today and has always been inherently left leaning. That's why we've been beating the shite out of skinheads for decades. Punk has been pushing for LGBTQ rights, been screaming about systemic racism, been anti-war, been anti-corporation since its inception. Almost everything about the conservative movement, in the 80s to today, is antithetical to punk/hardcore. The only shared interest is a distrust in government, but both have extremely different reasons.
Just because Crass hated the government doesn't mean they weren't a part of the radical left. Anarchy to punks isn't about the government not getting into your business. It's about removing power structures from government and business to the people in order to set up communal societies where everyone treats each other fair and equally. Punk is built on Marxism. Just because punk has contributed to a change in society where its values are more accepted by the mainstream doesn't mean punks are going to trade C Wright Mills for Ayn Rand just to be "anti-conformist". Again, that's nonsense.
Most of the bands in this thread are only partly punk at best. Misfits, Offspring, RATM, Sex Pistols, Blink, Green Day, Sum 41 (lol) all barely register on the punk spectrum at all. Not even sure why they are being talked about. Some dude mentioned Black Flag and Bad Brains as if Rollins and HR don't detest Donald Trump (even though Black Flag is nihilism punk which is hardly punk at all).
This thread just shows that the people here don't know what punk is, where it came from or where it is going. If you think being a conservative is punk then I would recommend wearing a MAGA shirt to a hardcore show so you can realize how absolutely unwelcome you would be in the scene.
Punk isn't defined by being "non-conformist", it is defined by "challenging norms to create social progress". Pointlessly being "against the grain" is not a movement. That's nonsense.
Punk *is* the woke culture that is being recognized today and has always been inherently left leaning. That's why we've been beating the shite out of skinheads for decades. Punk has been pushing for LGBTQ rights, been screaming about systemic racism, been anti-war, been anti-corporation since its inception. Almost everything about the conservative movement, in the 80s to today, is antithetical to punk/hardcore. The only shared interest is a distrust in government, but both have extremely different reasons.
Just because Crass hated the government doesn't mean they weren't a part of the radical left. Anarchy to punks isn't about the government not getting into your business. It's about removing power structures from government and business to the people in order to set up communal societies where everyone treats each other fair and equally. Punk is built on Marxism. Just because punk has contributed to a change in society where its values are more accepted by the mainstream doesn't mean punks are going to trade C Wright Mills for Ayn Rand just to be "anti-conformist". Again, that's nonsense.
Most of the bands in this thread are only partly punk at best. Misfits, Offspring, RATM, Sex Pistols, Blink, Green Day, Sum 41 (lol) all barely register on the punk spectrum at all. Not even sure why they are being talked about. Some dude mentioned Black Flag and Bad Brains as if Rollins and HR don't detest Donald Trump (even though Black Flag is nihilism punk which is hardly punk at all).
This thread just shows that the people here don't know what punk is, where it came from or where it is going. If you think being a conservative is punk then I would recommend wearing a MAGA shirt to a hardcore show so you can realize how absolutely unwelcome you would be in the scene.
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 9:09 am
Posted on 5/2/21 at 8:52 am to Fells
quote:
Fells
^this
Posted on 5/2/21 at 9:17 am to PhDoogan
quote:
Glenn Danzig: Punk rock wouldn't exist today because of "woke bullsh*t"
He’s wrong about that. Punk existed because people wanted something new and interesting. Today’s version of that can be just as new.
Danzig is locked into the punk of 40 years ago. If the punks of 1980 were doing music 40 years old they would be swing dancing to big bands. Danzig is old people music.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 9:29 am to Fells
quote:
in order to set up communal societies where everyone treats each other fair and equally.
quote:
I would recommend wearing a MAGA shirt to a hardcore show so you can realize how absolutely unwelcome you would be in the scene.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 9:32 am to Fells
quote:
Punk has been pushing for LGBTQ rights, been screaming about systemic racism, been anti-war, been anti-corporation since its inception. Almost everything about the conservative movement, in the 80s to today, is antithetical to punk/hardcore.
Hardcore in the early 80s was very much this, with a few exceptions of course, and the right wing racist skinheads, who likely grew into Trump lovers.
Posted on 5/2/21 at 6:32 pm to Fells
quote:
Fells
quote:
This is probably the most hilariously wrong thread I have seen on TD to date, and that is honestly impressive.
You sound like an expert on the subject. How many punk albums do you own and which bands qualify as true punk?
Posted on 5/2/21 at 7:38 pm to Fells
quote:
This is probably the most hilariously wrong thread I have seen on TD to date, and that is honestly impressive.
If by “wrong” you mean “pretentious”, I’d have to agree.
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