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Message
1
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:42 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Chauvin kneeled on him for over 2 1/2 mins after he'd lost his pulse. It was evident to everyone on the scene (except Chauvin?) that Floyd was dead or at least in extremis. Ultimately that is the issue.
There were at least two officers kneeling on Floyd.
Get your facts straight
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:43 am to jimdog
quote:He's claustrophobic with regard to police cars, but not to the front seat of his own car which he was in only moments before? That's the argument? It's not like he had never seen the back of a police car before.
Some one without claustrophobia cannot grasp the panic of being in a small and or confined space.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:44 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
There were at least two officers kneeling on Floyd
Good point. Two officers culpable.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:44 am to cajunangelle
Like a fine symphony, this was well choreographed.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:46 am to jimdog
quote:they literally pulled him out of a car. He wasn't too claustrophobic to sit in a car. He died from slamming meth and fentanyl while having an underlying heart condition
He also told them about his phobia and they ignored it since they are not medical pro's. Some one without claustrophobia cannot grasp the panic of being in a small and or confined space
This post was edited on 7/12/20 at 11:47 am
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:50 am to jimdog
quote:
George Floyd died of a panic attack. He told the officers the truth, he couldn't breath
quote:
jimdog
Now comment on the Commies and useful idiots who have used George Floyd's death as an excuse injure and even kill almost 1 thousand law enforcement officers, burn down perhaps billions of dollars of property, and steal millions of dollars of merchandise.
Can't wait for that thread.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:52 am to the808bass
quote:
Good point. Two officers culpable
After reading the body cam transcript, the only person responsible for Floyd’s death is Floyd
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:55 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
After reading the body cam transcript, the only person responsible for Floyd’s death is Floyd
We will continue to disagree. Floyd’s horrible choices obviously contributed in large part to his demise. But when a person takes drugs and/or commits a crime does not mean we should be callous to their health.
A society based on law and order should protect those in police custody just as it protects those who are law-abiding.
This post was edited on 7/12/20 at 11:56 am
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:01 pm to the808bass
quote:
should be callous to their health.
They weren’t. They immediately requested medical assistance for Floyd. If they were callous with his health, they wouldn’t have. Your view isn’t reconcilable with the facts at hand.
quote:
A society based on law and order should protect those in police custody just as it protects those who are law-abiding.
Agreed.
I know policy dictates once a suspect is secure, you roll them over. But this guy had been resisting offficers over and over again and every time they gave him freedom he resisted again. I can’t read the state of mind of the officers at the time but, I think it’s reasonable to believe they didn’t feel this suspect would be secure until strapped to a medical bed.
This post was edited on 7/12/20 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:03 pm to narddogg81
There were two medical examinations. Both concluded he died as a result of homicide, which is defined as the killing of one human being by another human being. The two reports differ in the following ways: one says he died from being asphyxiated. The other says he died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." Meaning that law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression was directly involved in the homicide.
The question then simply becomes, were the actions of the other human being that killed Floyd (Chauvin) justified or not. Remember, both reports conclude homicide, no disagreement or variation in that specific point.
Chauvin was not arrested for something that happened while Floyd was standing up. Or while Floyd was in or up against the vehicle. Rather, Chauvin was arrested for what occurred in those 8 minutes, i.e. simply whether the knee to the neck during that entire timeframe was justified or not. That's what will be determined at the actual criminal court trial of this matter. Folks get way too caught up in what's said in the court of public opinion. Half of what's argued in the court of public opinion will not be addressed at trial. Because it has no relevance to those 8 minutes, which again is what Chauvin was arrested for.
Tl;dr
The question then simply becomes, were the actions of the other human being that killed Floyd (Chauvin) justified or not. Remember, both reports conclude homicide, no disagreement or variation in that specific point.
Chauvin was not arrested for something that happened while Floyd was standing up. Or while Floyd was in or up against the vehicle. Rather, Chauvin was arrested for what occurred in those 8 minutes, i.e. simply whether the knee to the neck during that entire timeframe was justified or not. That's what will be determined at the actual criminal court trial of this matter. Folks get way too caught up in what's said in the court of public opinion. Half of what's argued in the court of public opinion will not be addressed at trial. Because it has no relevance to those 8 minutes, which again is what Chauvin was arrested for.
Tl;dr
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:05 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
They weren’t. They immediately requested medical assistance for Floyd. If they were callous with his health, they wouldn’t have. Your view isn’t reconcilable with the facts at hand.
I’m not talking about the police officers here. I don’t think they murdered Floyd. I’m talking about people who say “because Floyd was a criminal, I don’t care if he died.”
I do think that the officers were acting outside the bounds of policy. I also think that if they rolled Floyd on his side, he might have still died. See Manuel Ellis in Tacoma, WA. But it could’ve created a major shift in the narrative.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:08 pm to the808bass
quote:
I do think that the officers were acting outside the bounds of policy. I also think that if they rolled Floyd on his side
He would have started resisting again.
I’m also sure the officers are going to argue that very thing, that the suspects repeated attempts to resist mild constraint put them in the state of mind that he wasn’t secure. And I’m inclined to believe them.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:10 pm to Turbeauxdog
That’s fine for them to argue. It could be a compelling argument.
I would argue that a person who is experiencing “excited delirium” often appears to be resisting when they it’s just the effects of the excited delirium. That’s part of the training on excited delirium.
I would argue that a person who is experiencing “excited delirium” often appears to be resisting when they it’s just the effects of the excited delirium. That’s part of the training on excited delirium.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:14 pm to the808bass
quote:
I would argue that a person who is experiencing “excited delirium” often appears to be resisting when they it’s just the effects of the excited delirium. That’s part of the training on excited delirium.
Those aren’t mutually exclusive. The cause of his delirium wasn’t his prone position so the officers still have to consider the physical safety of the suspect themselves nearby civilians and medical professionals.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:18 pm to jimdog
He was still killed by the cop, from everything we have seen.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:27 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
cause of his delirium wasn’t his prone position
Knowing that prone positioning exacerbates excited delirium doesn’t help them.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
Knowing that prone positioning exacerbates excited delirium doesn’t help them
Floyd’s behavior prior to prone positioning does.
ETA: I was on the side of prosecution until this new information was released. Now I know why it wasn’t. I also now know the trash governing Minnesota know it as well.
This post was edited on 7/12/20 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:31 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
He was still killed by the cop, from everything we have seen.
Lol
No
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:34 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Floyd’s behavior prior to prone positioning does.
It does. The procedure for handling detainees is going to be the rubber hits the road juncture. If the jury think they were following procedure, they’ll all walk.
And we get to do this all over again.
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