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Started By
Message
re: Ford to Raise Car Prices This Summer Unless Trump Tariffs Ease
Posted on 4/17/25 at 4:50 pm to Flats
Posted on 4/17/25 at 4:50 pm to Flats
quote:
No, it drives up wages for protected industries. Those wages are subsidized by the consumer who now pays more for the protected product.
Nope. The 2 things are illegal immigration and New jobs created.
- Illegal immigration lowers wages. Fix that, wages goes up. See Trump 1.0.
- New Jobs created means more options for employees. That in turn means employers will have to pay more more to get good workers.
quote:
People always make these broad claims, and pretend that because Fred got himself a union job at the plant that everybody has more money.
Has nothing to do with me or what the 2 of us are speaking about.
quote:
then you just "yada-yada, the economy is better and everybody wins." No, everybody does not win.
Not everybody wins period. No matter what, let's call it 'system', you choose. Who won in the heartland? Nobody. Jobs were replaced with box stores and retail.
2
Posted on 4/17/25 at 4:54 pm to Jjdoc
quote:Ah. yes. The old "we lose money on each one, but we make it up becasue we sell more of them!"
If they raise prices, they will lower them quickly when sales crash.
quote:Same argument as the minimum wage. Both are a variant of the broken window theory.
As for future, prices may go up, as they always do, but there will be more jobs and the wages will increase.
This post was edited on 4/17/25 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 4/17/25 at 4:58 pm to BCreed1
quote:
- Illegal immigration lowers wages. Fix that, wages goes up. See Trump 1.0.
Yes, that has nothing to do with tariffs.
quote:
- New Jobs created means more options for employees. That in turn means employers will have to pay more more to get good workers.
But where is the money coming from to pay the good workers more? You're not creating wealth, you're just moving it around. You pay more for your US made shoes/car/computer but then you have less money to spend at the restaurant or for new tires. You could have the government pay people to dig holes then fill them in, and according to you that will mean employers have to pay more to get good workers.
quote:
Not everybody wins period.
So why pretend that these "new jobs" are going to make things better for everybody? They're not. They're going to help protected industries at the expense of everybody else.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 4:58 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
wutangfinancial
been a while! quote:Indeed. For the seals, they are talking about price inflation. Tariffs are stagflationary. Price inflation with no change to money supply. I remember how awesome that was under Jimmy Carter's days. Glad someone is bringing it back!
The narrative of inflation is usually more impactful on prices than actual inflation which relates to lending. You could see this in the margins of public companies. They were expanding after the CARES Act, which virtually never happens in an inflationary environment. Tariffs can’t cause inflation because they aren’t monetary.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:00 pm to BCreed1
quote:This may be the most effecient self owns I've ever seen here.
What does creating wealth have to do with what he said? As more jobs are created and illegal immigration is taken care of, it drives wages up.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:00 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Same argument as the minimum wage. Both are a variant of the broken window theory.
Broken record alert: Hazlitt should be required to graduate from HS.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:02 pm to BCreed1
quote:
- New Jobs created means more options for employees. That in turn means employers will have to pay more more to get good workers.
Just mandate wage scales
Then add price controls. We would all thrive! Instead of fricking with markets. If youre gonna go left, go all the way baw.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:02 pm to Flats
quote:
Broken record alert: Hazlitt should be required to graduate from HS.
and add BastiatThis post was edited on 4/17/25 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:03 pm to Flats
quote:
You mean they're not going to just eat it?
They've been gouging the frick out of us since covid. If people would practice a little self-control, six months is all it would take to drop prices. But morons only care what their monthly payments will be. Out the door price never enters the equation for 75% of buyers.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:06 pm to dalefla
quote:
They've been gouging the frick out of us since covid.
"Gouging" is a word for people who want to appeal to emotion. Car dealers want to charge you as much as they can, always. You want to pay as little as you can, always. Both sides are equally greedy and looking out for their own interests.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:12 pm to Flats
quote:
quote:
- Illegal immigration lowers wages. Fix that, wages goes up. See Trump 1.0.
Yes, that has nothing to do with tariffs.
But it does. You are viewing tariffs in an isolated environment and it's not. There is a plan, and it's more than just tariffs.
quote:
But where is the money coming from to pay the good workers more?
From trade and sells if we are talking products for sell.
quote:
You pay more for your US made shoes/car/computer but then you have less money to spend at the restaurant or for new tires.
Not at all. You have more money due to wage increase.
quote:
You could have the government pay people to dig holes then fill them in, and according to you that will mean employers have to pay more to get good workers.
That's a horrible analogy. It's literally nothing like that. It's simple and a universally understood thing that when you have a surplus of workers verses jobs, wages go down. Why? Because those without jobs want one. That makes you less valuable to me as an employer. And yes, I employ people.
The opposite is also true. If I can not find a worker, I have to make my opening more valuable to an employee. That can come in a few forms, but mainly higher wages.
quote:
So why pretend that these "new jobs" are going to make things better for everybody? They're not. They're going to help protected industries at the expense of everybody else.
It will increase the middle class and raise people out of poverty. Not all people will accept that. It's far superior on every level. Better jobs. Higher wages. Self sustaining as a nation.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:15 pm to BCreed1
quote:
It will increase the middle class
Not at todays inflated cost of living.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:17 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Not at todays inflated cost of living.
That's dropping. In fact, the CPI MoM was negative.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:17 pm to BCreed1
quote:
But it does.
No, it's a separate policy. The topic is about the impact of tariffs, not Trump.
quote:
You have more money due to wage increase.
Once again, you have no concept of where the money comes from. You haven't created wealth, which means you're just shuffling money around. The "wage increase" will be paid by other consumers.
quote:
That's a horrible analogy.
It's not an analogy, it's an example of propping up an inefficient job. It's just an extreme example.
quote:
Better jobs. Higher wages.
You're just repeating silly claims without explaining where they come from. I guess it's because you don't really know.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:18 pm to BCreed1
quote:
That's dropping. In fact, the CPI MoM was negative
The dollar is dropping in value.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:21 pm to RogerTheShrubber
When prices drop, the value of the dollar generally increases because it can buy more goods and services.
Like I said, the CPI is dropping and the CPI MOM went negative. That means prices are dropping.
The dollar loses value when inflation rises.
Like I said, the CPI is dropping and the CPI MOM went negative. That means prices are dropping.
The dollar loses value when inflation rises.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:23 pm to BCreed1
quote:
When prices drop, the value of the dollar generally increases
quote:
The U.S. dollar has declined more than 4% since the start of the year, its biggest drop over this period since 2008.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:42 pm to Flats
quote:
No, it's a separate policy. The topic is about the impact of tariffs, not Trump.
I get that you want to keep it there, but this is really about Trump's economic plan.
quote:
Once again, you have no concept of where the money comes from. You haven't created wealth, which means you're just shuffling money around. The "wage increase" will be paid by other consumers.
I answered that. Via trade and sells.
What is wealth. Is it just the amassment of valuables? In the 16th-18th century, rulers thought so. This notion is called mercantilism. This idea was rejected by Adam Smith in book IV of The Wealth of Nations.
The current meaning of wealth is not the amount you own, but rather how much you can consume (sustainably). Total of all assets of an economic unit that generate current income or have the potential to generate future income.
Labor
Example: I work at a farm. The result of my work is some farm produce worth X. For that I am paid Y. The farmer that hired me will receive X-Y. The net wealth gain for the society is Y + (X-Y), or X.
Trade
Trade increases wealth by transferring a good or a service to someone that values it higher.
Example 1: I buy a used car from a neighbour for X amount of money. I get a car that is worth Y to me (Y>=X, or I wouldn't have bought it). My neighbour gets X for a car that was worth Z to him (Z<=X, or he would have kept the car). The wealth produced is (Y-X) + (X-Z), or Y-Z, which is >= 0 because Z<=X<=Y. In GDP terms the wealth produced is X - X, or 0, because GDP only measures how much is paid.
Example 2: An electronics company imports batteries from China for 10 cents each. They sell the batteries to customers for $3 each. The wealth increase in GDP terms is $2:90 per battery. The wealth produced is shared by the electronics company, the shipping company, the store salesman and any others that provide services to the electronics company.
I could talk about innovation too, but why?
Posted on 4/17/25 at 5:58 pm to Flats
quote:
There isn’t much difference between protectionist tariffs and a bailout. One just happens sooner.
Fair enough.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 6:00 pm to BCreed1
quote:
I get that you want to keep it there, but this is really about Trump's economic plan.
This may come as a shock to you, but even if it was about Trump's overall plan it's possible for a thinking person to agree with parts of it and not others. But the topic is about tariffs and their impact.
quote:
Via trade and sells.
That doesn't create wealth. It's just money and goods changing hands, but if you don't know the difference I can't help you. You're saying the same thing over and over, and it's just a version of "We pay higher prices, yada yada, the economy turns fabulous."
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