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re: For those who have supported Putin and Russia in the Ukraine War
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:18 pm to Burt Reynolds
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:18 pm to Burt Reynolds
quote:Sounds scary!
The US fricked around and is now finding out
1
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:18 pm to Cosmo
I think a lot of people on this board can't stand Ukraine because they know how much we provoked this conflict, funded it once it began, and how that country has been a giant CIA base and money laundering operation.
I think there is a small contingent actually rooting for Putin because if anyone is fighting off globalists trying to break up and sell off his country, it's him.
I think there is a small contingent actually rooting for Putin because if anyone is fighting off globalists trying to break up and sell off his country, it's him.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:25 pm to B747Tiger
quote:
Second, the vast majority of Russians I’ve met in my travels are downright uncivilized. On a personal level I disdain them. If Russian is a race then call me a racist.
You're certainly entitled to an opinion. Not gonna waste my time arguing around it.
All I'll say is that my experiences have been the inverse. I find Russian culture to be fascinating, rich, and worthy of study.
They should have been a natural ally after the Soviet Union fell, but that ball was fumbled impossibly hard.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:25 pm to Jbird
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:28 pm to Burt Reynolds
Brutal man just fricking kill shot brutal! :jump1:
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:31 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
I think a lot of people on this board can't stand Ukraine because they know how much we provoked this conflict, funded it once it began, and how that country has been a giant CIA base and money laundering operation.
I think there is a small contingent actually rooting for Putin because if anyone is fighting off globalists trying to break up and sell off his country, it's him.
Yeah, we have a real societal problem where people feel like they can't just not like X thing, but they also feel like they have to support whatever the opposite of X is.
You can just say "I'm not really all that fond of X" and also not support Y.
Strategic fence-sitting is a lost art.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:31 pm to RoyalAir
quote:
They should have been a natural ally after the Soviet Union fell, but that ball was fumbled impossibly hard.
By Mr. Vladimir Putin himself. The problem was the new Russian leader had always been anti-Western. It was inevitable that he was going to start some shite with the West. In his mind, we are responsible for the fall of Moscow’s empire. He never ever saw us as an ally or someone Russia could depend on.
As much as we talk about the West’s faults in Russian/Western relations, Putin has many many faults as well, that lead to the deterioration of relations between Russia and the West. It’d be nice if you guys would quit giving excuses to this madman. Then maybe people would think you’re not being Pro-Putin.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:38 pm to theballguy
quote:
What are your honest opinions on him backing Iran?
I still see Ukraine as an annoying country. And I'm still incensed about Biden giving them $300B (or probably more we don't know about).
I never supported Putin but I also never had an issue with him beyond just being essentially a dictator but for me their business with Ukraine is between them and for those in Europe who are interested.
Smart, we did it to Ukraine and brought Russia pain. He is attempting to do the same to us and it is working because Trump is paying the price at the polls and we are at the pump.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:40 pm to theballguy
I’m sure there’s some out there that support Russia in this but I don’t recall ever seeing any. But I have seen a lot of people accused of supporting Russia simply by not supporting Ukraine.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:44 pm to sta4ever
quote:
By Mr. Vladimir Putin himself. The problem was the new Russian leader had always been anti-Western.
There was a nearly 10 year period post-USSR collapse until the rise of Putin. The failure to thaw relations was during the Clinton Administration, and involved Clinton, Warren Christopher, and Boris Yeltsin.
I'm no Putin defender, but you're blaming shite on him when he wasn't in power. Wanna rag on Yeltsin for fumbling the bag? Have at it.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:47 pm to RoyalAir
quote:
There was a nearly 10 year period post-USSR collapse until the rise of Putin. The failure to thaw relations was during the Clinton Administration, and involved Clinton, Warren Christopher, and Boris Yeltsin. I'm no Putin defender, but you're blaming shite on him when he wasn't in power. Wanna rag on Yeltsin for fumbling the bag? Have at it.
And within those 10 years was a very unstable Russia, who nearly fell apart, and broke into chaos. I guess you forgot or just don’t know about that. But we couldn’t do anything with them until some stability in Russia came about. We left them alone while they figured things out in their own country. Then some stability came about and Putin happened. Bush tried to form relations with Putin, but Putin never ever had any interest in becoming allies with the US and Western Europe.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:50 pm to B747Tiger
quote:
It’s weird as frick to me that Americans support Russia against Ukraine. They’re the type that would’ve turned in the Wolverines in Red Dawn. shite Americans
The people that support Ukraine called the cops on their neighbors for not masking a few years ago
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:51 pm to el Gaucho
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:52 pm to theballguy
Hmmm... Somehow I missed this support and adoration for Putin and Russia in the Ukraine war and wish for them to prevail over the U.S.. Links?
Posted on 9/1/26 at 2:59 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Bush tried to form relations with Putin, but Putin never ever had any interest in becoming allies with the US and Western Europe
This is literally untrue. But I guess you forgot or don't know about it, to borrow your phrase.
Putin met Clinton in June of 2000, and literally asked to be in NATO. Clinton hemmed and hawed, and put Putin on an island. This was literally a month after he had been appointed president.
Once left in the cold, Putin began to stabilize the fractured nation (as you mentioned), and did it largely by attacking the Oligarchs that Yeltsin had enriched during his messy tenure.
It's not hard to look at the distance that the West created with the Russians through an objective lens. They were European in every major sense prior to their fall to the Bolsheviks (who weren't fricking Russians, and hated Ruasians), and wanted back in after that system collapsed. The West, with the US in the driver's seat, said no. This was largely driven by NeoConservatives, who have an ethnic hatred of Russians.
The infamous Russian reset was a shitshow from the beginning. That's on HillDawg, and the Russians didn't trust her or Obama.
The Crimean invasion and South Ossetia crisis terrified the US, and for good reasons.
Relations get worse. Flash forward, and you have the Ukrainian pet project that puts both sides in a hot war.
The story is complicated. And it's been made worse *by both parties*, both US parties, and by the Russians themselves.
Ain't no good guys in this thing. But blaming *all of it* on the Russians is patently stupid.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 3:20 pm to B747Tiger
quote:
But the enemy of my enemy is my friend and they’re killing Russians.
Neither of them are our friend. Unless you are talking about our elite that uses Ukraine for corrupt goals, I'm sure they like them very much.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 3:35 pm to RoyalAir
Why in the world would the West let Moscow into NATO? They were still lead by many people who were USSR sympathizers, the same nation we were in a Cold War with for 45 years. The same nation who was responsible for the outbreak of WWII. Moscow never showed any signs of wanting to rid itself of its old ways.
No they weren’t. They’ve always been an Eurasian nation and still are today. And they’ve always been hellbent on controlling and invading other countries and territories. That’s why the West couldn’t accept Russia yet. They had to prove that they were done with their old ways.
quote:
They were European in every major sense prior to their fall to the Bolsheviks (who weren't fricking Russians, and hated Ruasians), and wanted back in after that system collapsed. The West, with the US in the driver's seat, said no.
No they weren’t. They’ve always been an Eurasian nation and still are today. And they’ve always been hellbent on controlling and invading other countries and territories. That’s why the West couldn’t accept Russia yet. They had to prove that they were done with their old ways.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 3:52 pm to sta4ever
quote:
they’ve always been hellbent on controlling and invading other countries and territories.
We have normalized relations with the UK, France, Israel, and Germany, and all have done the very same. Hell, three of them are in NATO. Let's not act like this is some kind of disqualifier from NATO.
Your initial assertion was that the Russians didn't want to have normalized relations with the West. That's demonstrably untrue, and it appears you've essentially conceded that point.
You don't like them, and don't want them in the West. Fair enough - I can absolutely understand that, and appreciate it. I think the same thing about many nations already in the NATO sphere. For example, I don't want to have normal relations with the godforsaken Turks, but the US is cool with Turkey in NATO. Those bastards are on stolen land from 1000 years ago, if we want to make it a blood feud.
Ultimately, Russia was left out in the cold, as a result of several administrations. There was a time when they wanted to "rejoin" Europe. That time has passed, and at this point, they may think they're better off.
I am not a Russian apologist. I do find them fascinating, much like someone may appreciate a rattlesnake. Doesn't mean I love them.
Anyhow, appreciate the conversation.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 4:01 pm to theballguy
Putin was the head of Russia's KGB, it's inner country police. A fair comparison is with Nazis Germany's Gestapo.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 4:58 pm to RoyalAir
quote:
Putin met Clinton in June of 2000, and literally asked to be in NATO. Clinton hemmed and hawed, and put Putin on an island. This was literally a month after he had been appointed president.
He mentioned it to Clinton and Clinton said he wouldn't object to it. The rest of the US NATO delegation did not like that.
Putin also told the NATO head that Russia shouldn't have to follow normal procedures to join. He kept asking when Russia would get their invitation, instead of applying, and stated Russia shouldn't have to stand in line with countries that didn't matter.
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