re: For decades doctors said formula was better than breastmilk

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in that era doctors were viewed as one level below God

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Dr. Fauci doesn't like your use of the word 'were.'

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Many babies will lightly latch on and use the breast as a pacifier. Those babies could easily become malnourished in a very short time. Formula allows the mother to know how many ounces the child is getting.

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Sure, a lot of babies do that. But an otherwise healthy baby would never “become malnourished” from this unless its mom has a serious problem with milk production. No type of pacifier will keep babies from getting hungry, and the hungrier they get the louder they cry. You can’t really fail to notice that. You definitely wouldn’t let it go on to the point of malnourishment if you’re a remotely competent parent. Besides, a baby that’s constantly suckling is also constantly stimulating increased milk production as part of a hormonal feedback loop that serves its function in the vast majority of adult women. (The practicality of it is a lot more open to debate.)

Also, I don’t know if you have any firsthand experience with this — but even a baby who’s latched on 24/7 just for comfort will get milk for sustenance at certain intervals. Once there’s a certain quantity of milk built up, the breasts release it reflexively, and the baby will swallow just as reflexively whether awake or asleep. And, reflex or not, as a mother you are definitely aware that it’s happening.

I’ll give you that measuring isn’t as easy. It can still be done if there’s genuine reason for concern, though. One of my kids had some issues right after birth and the hospital lent me an extra-sensitive scale so I could weigh him immediately before and after a feeding, and then calculate the difference to determine his milk intake. Cumbersome but very effective. For the typical mom and baby, though, there’s no actual need to get liquid measurements in the first place. If babies are growing, behaving, and developing appropriately, then they’re getting everything they need from whatever amount of breastmilk they ingest. Most of the time, measuring provides zero benefit for the baby; it just makes the parents feel better.

Bottom line, yes, many doctors claimed formula was superior for reasons beyond the ones listed above, and their reasons were largely rooted in ignorance. Others, such as your point about not being able to measure breastmilk easily, are issues of convenience and simplicity rather than actual superiority. These days, there’s just no real support for the argument that formula is “better” than breastmilk. It’s an acceptable alternative that may be the best choice for some people or in some circumstances, not a superior product in general. Nothing wrong about that … or with that.

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I’m going to need a source on this. Not like from one or two doctors, but a consensus statement from a pediatric/medical governing body.

Saying it’s “medically approved” and a reasonable alternative to breast milk isn’t sayings it’s “better.”

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I wish you good luck in your research. I know that it's borne of an earnest desire to learn more

This falls in the No shite Sherlock category. Any fool can guess that natural breastfeeding is better - that is, assuming your mom isn’t a crackhead.

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I’m going to need a source on this. Not like from one or two doctors, but a consensus statement from a pediatric/medical governing body.

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In the eras I am familiar with the late 50s and the 60s almost no woman breast feed, the few that did were looked upon as some kind of freak. All these mothers got the idea that using formula was a good idea from some where. Drs were placed on a pedestal then, if they had said breast feeding was better that’s what would have happened. My moms Doctor absolutely told her formula was a better source of nutrition, of course he said that while lighting up a Camel.

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Doctors have never said formula over natural breast fed milk

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Yes they did.

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This is complete bullshite

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No it's not.

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So are we now gonna second guess every fricking doctor because the vaccine doesn't work like you thought it did?

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No, we should have already.

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I'm not for mandating the vaccine, but there are plenty of vaccines out there that actually do work. Let's not discredit all of them.

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Breastfeeders were considered like antivaxxers. Pre-covid antivaxxers, the autism kind. That's what correct and polite majority society thought of breastfeeders. Into the 80s and even 90s in parts of the country, breastfeeding was considered by the majority to be like some kind of hippie dippie alternative medicine anti science crap. Formula has all the nutrition. This is what most everyone thought, and breastfeeding was stigmatized for this reason. Doctors had began being directly advertised formula by the manufacturers in the 1940s-50s. For decades from this time doctors everywhere directly, implicitly, and tacitly promoted the use of formula over breastmilk.

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In the eras I am familiar with the late 50s and the 60s almost no woman breast feed, the few that did were looked upon as some kind of freak. All these mothers got the idea that using formula was a good idea from some where. Drs were placed on a pedestal then,

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Ok if that’s the case why are y’all struggling to provide evidence that most doctors were arguing formula was better than breast milk? I wasn’t alive then and the anecdotal evidence of random PB posters is about as unreliable of a source as it gets.

You're very ignorant. There are things you don't know about the world and the way things were. You're not willing to find out, obviously. My epistemology is not yours. You said you need more sources. YOU need them. So go get them. I don't have one thing I read that convinced me. I'm not afraid of what you'll find because I know how things were and I know you're ignorant. You're dismissive and protectionist. If you're a doctor, I trust doctors less now because of your posts.

This is an excellent post. I know you have the vaccine in mind and all the certainty surrounding it, but my mind went to SSRIs and SNRIs. These antidepressants are being handed out like candy by every Dr Tom, Dick, and Harry despite very dubious evidence that they help most people. They also cause severe dependency problems, and many will never be able to come off of them. Of course, the money flows, and we all know that’s what really matters. It’s not a flaw of science or medicine. It’s just that capital will always try to grow and create new markets, and your body and mind are fertile territory.