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re: Fmr. CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield: Jab Should Not Have Been Called a vaccine

Posted on 2/2/26 at 2:16 pm to
Posted by ole man
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2007
18028 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 2:16 pm to
He’s full of shite. He trying to cover his slimy arse
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128779 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 2:19 pm to
He’s more of a saw-through-stuff doctor than a thinking one.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

But you were very pro-vaccine, were you not?



In a general sense, yes, but again, I was not in support of the strategy that was employed for numerous reasons. Although the powers that made the decisions invoked other disease control strategies by referencing smallpox, the major difference in the approach was that the pharmaceutical companies involved made an extremely cost-effective, dry powder vaccine which did not require refrigeration and they did not attempt to enforce patents. When it was announced that the companies involved now would instead protect their patents in late 2020 or early 2021, I knew that it was a lost cause.

The end result was a very narrow vaccine which wasn't used as it was promised, with frequent updates to match the mutation rate of the virus, nor was it used thoughtfully. I suggested that, if that was the strategy chosen, the only viable way to use it would be a global rollout within an incredibly short time period, with epidemiological measures such as lockdowns used as a last-line measure to limit the genomic diversity of the virus in the hopes that it would reach its 'error mutation rate' and eventually fizzle out. That was never going to happen, but the limitations of the vaccine did not prevent me from suggesting that the design of it was clever, using the most antigenic and vital portion of the virus morphology against it, while also focusing on an epitope-biased response.

quote:

First do no harm. It should have never been mandated and never recommended for anyone but the highest risk patients, if at all.



Mandates have to be used within an overall strategy. Here is a post I made from 2021 where I echo some of these notions as well as provide more nuance. LINK

quote:

Not shitting on you, just curious as to why you still were such a proponent for it, especially in younger, healthier subjects.



If you look at that link, I provide a justification, but in short, the thought process at the time was that decreasing disease severity and course will decrease viral load and potentially the overall infectivity. But as I point out in that next paragraph, if you want to control disease, you need a cogent strategy, not a piecemeal one. If the powers that be decide we have to use the mRNA vaccine, that requires a set of other measures in order to maximize the effectiveness of the vaccine. We were never going to do that, and thus prolonged the pandemic for no real reason other than money. And I don't see that industrial complex being broken any time soon, which does not portend good things for even epidemic level events in the future.
This post was edited on 2/2/26 at 6:51 pm
Posted by SmackoverHawg
Member since Oct 2011
31608 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 2:55 pm to
Guess we agreed on more than I realized.

quote:

We were never going to do that, and thus prolonged the pandemic for no real reason other than money. And I don't see that industrial complex being broken any time soon, which does not portend good things for even epidemic level events in the future.

Not in Arkansas. At least while SHS is governor and I continue to stay involved.



Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138899 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

Mandates have to be used within an overall strategy. Here is a post I made from 2021 where I echo some of these notions as well as provide more nuance. LINK
quote:

The mRNA vaccines are provoking immune response for one immunologic portion of the virus, which will lessen disease severity (and has in my experience). There are molecular reasons for designing the mRNA vaccines this way as well, as directing selective pressure across a population toward an epitope-biased serum antibody response is also an attempt at avoiding antigenic drift.

Whether they provide long-lasting immunity will remain to be seen. They do provide protection against the most pathogenic portion of the virus.

quote:
So the question remains why vaccinate the young and healthy with a vaccine that doesn't prevent spread?


Because decreasing disease severity and course will hopefully decrease viral load, which potentially hints at lower infectiousness.

The issue here is that while mass vaccination campaigns have been extremely successful in mostly eradicating certain diseases, they weren't the sole reason the prevalence of those diseases were decreased. Infectious diseases have different routes of transmission, and without a combined strategy of decreasing routes of transmission along with vaccination, we will always have occult infections, and will never reach herd immunity, unfortunately. No one is really interested in decreasing routes of transmission, so the efficacy of vaccines will be limited in the absence of a mass vaccination program that occurs within a condensed time period.
Those are some good thoughts C4L.

I think you were/are dead wrong with regard to Peds, especially under an EUA, but your comments about the mRNA approach in the above post, and in this thread are salient. Regardless of initial vax efficacy. the problem with the boosters is CV19 mutagenicity vs the limited antigen mRNA product. As the novel virus predictably evolved toward lowered virulence and increased transmissibility, the boosters could never catch up. So bang for the buck is a game of diminishing return.
Posted by MMauler
Primary This RINO Traitor
Member since Jun 2013
24478 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

It 100% looks like it was just an sociological experiment in compliance and obedience.



I agree with everything you said, except for this. I truly believe that this pandemic was unleashed on the world to get Donald Trump out of office. It was the only way the global elites were ever going to be able to get millions of totally unaccountable and fraudulent mail-in ballots that would be needed to beat Donald Trump in 2020. They literally put up a completely controllable fricking dementia-riddle vegetable because they knew there would be enough fraudulent ballots cast that they could put anyone in office.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138899 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

I truly believe that this pandemic was unleashed on the world to get Donald Trump out of office. It was the only way the global elites were ever going to be able to get millions of totally unaccountable and fraudulent mail-in ballots that would be needed to beat Donald Trump in 2020.
The pandemic electoral aftermath was reactive, not predictive. China has a 3rdworld lab system. It was gifted 1st world gene bio projects by Fauci/EcoHealth to circumvent "research" restrictions here. An unplanned accident was inevitable. That is what happened, as was the case with past lab coronavirus work in China. But once it occurred, Dems were not going to let the crisis go to waste.
This post was edited on 2/2/26 at 4:17 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138899 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

Smart people knew it was not a vaccine.
Smart people should know better than to make that statement. Of course it is a vaccine. It is simply increasingly ineffective, and unnecessary outside of very specific circumstances.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 2/2/26 at 6:49 pm to
quote:

I think you were/are dead wrong with regard to Peds, especially under an EUA


Probably. The reasoning there was based on the rate of serious sequelae in children, namely multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children. If the rate of total infection was similar to the rate of the serious sequalae of polio, that would be a justification for vaccination. I don't think it reached anywhere close to those levels, which weakens the justification significantly.
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